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mvallevand
2007-02-10, 11:26 PM
As an introduction, the purpose of this forum is to discuss the use of the mvpmc project's dongle.bin as a GB-PVR client. More specifically I would like to see discussion's of the mvpmc option I call "Emulation Mode" as an alternate to the standard Hauppauge client in their dongle.bin.

I originally added this function as a "proof of concept" but I decided to expand on it when I found I was able to do things mvpmc couldn't do thanks the power of GB-PVR. There are also things I feel mvpmc does better, at least for me, so there was a logical fit. I will open a separate thread on how to install mvpmc to gather feedback but it is quite simple.

I have now got emulation mode working to the point where it is useful but still not as stable as the Hauppauge client, but I don't see any reason it can't be equally or more stable. The mvpmc team probably know the hardware as well as Hauppauge does and I just need to understand a few things better then I do now in order to fix the stability issues. I will looking into getting some help from GB-PVR users in reaching this goal and looking for serious feedback and critique. Don't be kind.

Because of stability I have been reluctant promoting mvpmc or emulation mode, other then highlighting possibilities, but recent discussions on the future direction of mvpmc make it clear that GB-PVR users could benefit if this development continues. Jon Gettler, the project lead has said that the focus of mvpmc will be shifting to make the architecture open enough to run on other platforms, possibly game consoles and mini-ITX devices , but we still want to focus on embedded linux devices. With these new devices offering HD video, and more native a/v protocols, I am very hopeful. I have the same faith in Jon as I do in sub, in being able to deliver amazing things.

I expect there will be other discussions on when to use mvpmc's native capabilities instead of GB-PVR's, but it is not a contest and I want to see pros and cons discussions and not "fanboy" responses. If any of you read avsforum when different products are compared you will know what I mean.

I will be particularly interested in where GB-PVR users want to go, especially with your option of using the GBPVR client. Clearly I do not see a need to discuss anything about MythTV here, and I couldn't help you anyway because I don't use it.

Finally the mvpmc project does have its own web site and wiki respectively at

http://www.mvpmc.org/
http://mvpmc.wikispaces.com/

Because the history of mvpmc has typically been aimed at Linux and MythTV users, some of you may find these hard to follow. I actually gave up trying to load the mvpmc dongle on several occasions, so if you get lost come back here.

Thanks,

Martin

David
2007-02-11, 12:23 AM
Would this work like a dongle we couple drop into the GB-PVR folder and select through the config? Or would I need to tftp a new firmware into the unit?

Stevie77
2007-02-11, 12:36 AM
Would this work like a dongle we couple drop into the GB-PVR folder and select through the config? Or would I need to tftp a new firmware into the unit?

1. Unplug the mvp from power
2. Put the mvpmc dongle .bin into the "dongle" directory of gbpvr
3. Change to this dongle in config
4. Replug the mvp to power
5. See it loading ... needs some time, maybe over one or two minutes.
6. Choose emulation mode

pBS
2007-02-11, 12:46 AM
i've used the MVPMC dongle soon as i saw the emulation mode way back when..:)
worked fine...just put in the dir and select it in gbpvr config...
i'm sure he'll put up a write up soon about installing/using it..really pretty selfexpainatory..just try it..:D
i should see what improvements have been made as it's been a year about since i tried it last...[lately i'm using client mode and the pc for viewing..]

i remember it working quite well, tho lacking a few capabilities i hope are now added...

i'm looking into making a client version running on bartpe for xbox..:)
[already have client running on bartpe cd for diskless pc client]

wondering if client mode has opened up any new possibilities for MVPMC?

looking forward to your further development..:D

Jeff
2007-02-11, 01:00 AM
When using GBPVR, what is the advantage of using this dongle?

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 02:34 AM
When using GBPVR, what is the advantage of using this dongle?

Jeff, here is the GB-PVR message that really started this off

http://forums.gbpvr.com/showpost.php?p=174827&postcount=9

Stability aside, to summarize the specific advantages might be:

- wide screen signaling.
- Wake On LAN
- improved recovery from FF/RW on MPEG1 files.
- working volume controls.
- (I believe) better video buffering
- remote power off
- fewer network overruns and collisions

The real advantage will come if I can improve stability and this will run well on newer platforms.

Martin

pBS
2007-02-11, 03:03 AM
plus you can use it's internal player for upnp,other servers and direcct acces to other file formats, including vobs with ac3 audio inside.. :)

plus streaming from web with vlc as server on server machine..

i'm sure there's other things i am forgetting..

and it works great as a gbpvr dongle without any real hoops to jump thru..
[switchable from the remote]

it's functions are mostly native in hardware [not server based] so it opens up other possibilitites for future...
i'd love to see web browsing with tab and clickable links sometime...

oh and speed...native functions means hardware speed...
[not needing to convert formats on server first etc.]

wtg
2007-02-11, 03:22 AM
What's wide-screen signaling?

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 03:26 AM
i'd love to see web browsing with tab and clickable links sometime...

Actually mvpmc can already do web browsing because it can be configured to be a VNC client. In fact, I just extended this by adding the extensions for the Hauppauge/GB-PVR GUI interface. Unfortunately the resolution of the MediaMVP at 640 x 480 or 576 doesn't provide a great web experience, even if you set the VNC host to the matching resolution.

Martin

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 03:32 AM
What's wide-screen signaling? It is a part of an mpeg stream that tells mvpmc to automatically toggle from 4:3 to 16:9 aspect ratios. I've never seen it here in any NTSC file, but I've been sent some PAL DVB streams that do change during commercials.

Martin

jksmurf
2007-02-11, 05:36 AM
Hi martin

Wow, extraordinary piece of work-in-a-Dongle. Kudos. 1
I have queries & suggestion (10 Feb 07 Daily Build). I played around with a few of the other menus, changed VLC server IP (even though I don't run a aVLC server, yet ..)

1. The Music Client does not seem ready yet, just a funny sort of screen and when I went back out one time it crashed?
2. I power off each night so the next Recording Widget on the MVP doesn't disturb GBPVR IF I run GBPVR on the PC. When you power off it goes through the loading application stuff each time (maybe an option to hide the ugly stuff at some stage and just have a progress bar with "loading application" :-). The first time it reconnected to GBPVR immediately, 2nd time on attempt 18/30, 16/30 on the third. That whole process seems to take longer than the native dongle?
3. Any possibility that you can set it default to emulation mode, so wife can turn it on with green button and it just finds the GBPVR server, rather than manually choosing emulation mode (not sure how you'd change it back OUT of that, though... SCRAP THAT, I see you've done it in the Web Part...SO Darn GOOD, it has to become the default dongle!!

Just some thoughts..

k.

btw how good is that Web-access!! It's GREAT. I static-IP my MediaMVP (WRT54GS with Thibor 15c) to an IP that I give a name http://mediamvp.lounge/ ... Awesome!

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 06:12 AM
1. The Music Client does not seem ready yet, just a funny sort of screen and when I went back out one time it crashed?
MClient is the Interface to SlimServer which might not be what you are looking for. I will pass on your comments to the developer, he just put a change into the nightlies.

The interface to multimedia files is just the file system browser. For this to be useful you would need to have files on a share or a UPnP server, but in /usr/share/playlist there is a file default.m3u that has some native streaming examples.



2. I power off each night so the next Recording Widget on the MVP doesn't disturb GBPVR IF I run GBPVR on the PC. When you power off it goes through the loading application stuff each time (maybe an option to hide the ugly stuff at some stage and just have a progress bar with "loading application" :-). The first time it reconnected to GBPVR immediately, 2nd time on attempt 18/30, 16/30 on the third. That whole process seems to take longer than the native dongle?
I'm not sure what is too bad about the login info. The nightlies do have on long string of data
to identify the source code so it can be rebuilt, if we find a problem. For a normal release it is just the release number.

One thing I would like to do is compare the login timings, do you run the dongle that sub distributes?



3. Any possibility that you can set it default to emulation mode, so wife can turn it on with green button and it just finds the GBPVR server, rather than manually choosing emulation mode (not sure how you'd change it back OUT of that, though...


I posted some instructions on this in the install thread, but no promises about the WAF yet.

Martin

jksmurf
2007-02-11, 06:37 AM
MClient is the Interface to SlimServer which might not be what you are looking for. I will pass on your comments to the developer, he just put a change into the nightlies.

The interface to multimedia files is just the file system browser. For this to be useful you would need to have files on a share or a UPnP server, but in /usr/share/playlist there is a file default.m3u that has some native streaming examples.Cheers, yeah I wouldn't use it, just an observation.


I'm not sure what is too bad about the login info. The nightlies do have on long string of data to identify the source code so it can be rebuilt, if we find a problem. For a normal release it is just the release number. Don't get me wrong it's just reducing it so WAF is not affected.... :-)


One thing I would like to do is compare the login timings, do you run the dongle that sub distributes? Nope, the latest shs version...


I posted some instructions on this in the install thread, but no promises about the WAF yet.No worries about WAF, but those instructions about modifying the bin look a bot scary...any chance of that becoming web-page configurable?

k.

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 07:01 AM
The first time it reconnected to GBPVR immediately, 2nd time on attempt 18/30, 16/30 on the third. That whole process seems to take longer than the native dongle?

I just thought of something about this, planning on how I was going to test this tomorrow. Are you saying that the Hauppauge dongle immediately reconnects to GB-PVR after a power off/power on for you? For me, the GB-PVR MVP Server always waits 20 seconds until I get one of these in the logs

MVP data taking too long, connection must have been dropped!

Anytime after these first 20 seconds, the connection is the typical 1 or 2 seconds.

Martin

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 07:09 AM
No worries about WAF, but those instructions about modifying the bin look a bot scary...any chance of that becoming web-page configurable?

Actually you don't modify the bin, you just create a text file dongle.bin.config with a one line entry

mvpmc --startup emulate --emulate ?

In any case it is also web configurable. In the option "Startup Item:" select Emulation and then push the "Update Config" button. The trouble with this is it doesn't get saved and it is lost on a hard reboot. I have talked with the Hauppauge developers and we will be able to store all the mvpmc configuration options in flash, but it will be tested a lot before users will see it.

Martin

jksmurf
2007-02-11, 11:26 AM
Are you saying that the Hauppauge dongle immediately reconnects to GB-PVR after a power off/power on for you? It's reasonably quick tbh. The later H dongles have an server IP you choose. But yours worked well the first time and was also very quickafter restarting GBPVR. It was just subsequent loads. I was testing this as I use power off every day.

k.

jksmurf
2007-02-11, 11:30 AM
Actually you don't modify the bin, you just create a text file dongle.bin.config with a one line entry

mvpmc --startup emulate --emulate ? Ah ... OK. I'm just thinking for "general use" for an easy way to achieve this...


In any case it is also web configurable. In the option "Startup Item:" select Emulation and then push the "Update Config" button. The trouble with this is it doesn't get saved and it is lost on a hard reboot. Yes, I saw and I tried this. It looked like the business.... (teh cat's pyajamas actually) but. it didn't save... :(


I have talked with the Hauppauge developers and we will be able to store all the mvpmc configuration options in flash, but it will be tested a lot before users will see it. MartinWow, Coolio!!

k.

mvallevand
2007-02-11, 02:50 PM
It's reasonably quick tbh. The later H dongles have an server IP you choose. But yours worked well the first time and was also very quickafter restarting GBPVR. It was just subsequent loads. I was testing this as I use power off every day.

I don't see this quick restart at all, using the 1.51 dongle on an older model I get the Contacting Server message for the 20 second period it takes gb-pvr to reset. On the model H it is actually worse because once I get a failed to contact gui message. I end up in the setup screen which requires a key press to get out of the preferred server screen, which would even delay longer if I hit Ok and not Back because it writes to flash, and then I have to press even more keys to select Go on a wMVP.

This is really a theoretical problem because in reality there aren't many times that you will want to power off and on in the 20 second window but it is interesting how we see such different behaviour with the Hauppauge dongle.

Martin

Lindsay
2007-02-14, 08:53 AM
I'm trying the latest nightly on a Vista m/c. The dongle loads OK and I can navigate around the menu but many functions don't work. LiveTV (reboots), music (nothing happens) , videos (reboots) don't work. Displaying photos, TV Guide, Find does work.

After a reboot, the first button press is swallowed.

But it does communicate under Vista which is a plus! However, the above problems don't make it a likely replacement just yet, unfortunately.

mvallevand
2007-02-20, 04:11 AM
I don't see this quick restart at all, using the 1.51 dongle on an older model I get the Contacting Server message for the 20 second period it takes gb-pvr to reset. On the model H it is actually worse because once I get a failed to contact gui message. I end up in the setup screen which requires a key press to get out of the preferred server screen, which would even delay longer if I hit Ok and not Back because it writes to flash, and then I have to press even more keys to select Go on a wMVP.
jksmurf, as a follow up, when I configure gbpvr to auto start more then one server even the added 20 second delay goes away so I am not sure why you are seeing the problem you do.

Martin

tkgafs
2007-02-20, 11:02 PM
Hi Martin,

just started playing with this dongle again tonight after a brief look last year.

Seems to start up ok although I see similar things to jksmurf first load is quick but subsequent loads seem to go further and further into the xx/30 tries.

I use musiclibrary2 as my music player and it only seems to work with your dongle for selecting and starting playing music no navigation around the playlist seems to work

in general the display is abit big for my screen is there anyway to change screen size ?

keep up the good work

tkgafs

mvallevand
2007-02-20, 11:57 PM
just started playing with this dongle again tonight after a brief look last year.

Are you using 0.3.3 or my alpha?


Seems to start up ok although I see similar things to jksmurf first load is quick but subsequent loads seem to go further and further into the xx/30 tries.

This is baffling how do you power off the mvp and how do you start gbpvr with the icon or via the config mvp option?


I use musiclibrary2 as my music player and it only seems to work with your dongle for selecting and starting playing music no navigation around the playlist seems to work

I'll have a look, I have it installed but didn't see anything odd, but I have to figure out what remote control difference there is before I comment. I really like the looks of musiclibrary2 too but I moved to native flac for my collection.


in general the display is abit big for my screen is there anyway to change screen size ?

This is something I'd like comments on, I actually tell gbpvr that I have 720 resolution to allow a higher resolution image, and I haven't noticed a problem but maybe it is too non-standard. You should be able control the image size with the gbpvr plugin.



keep up the good work

Thanks, and thanks for the feedback.

Martin

tkgafs
2007-02-21, 12:35 AM
Are you using 0.3.3 or my alpha?

I am using 0.3.3


This is baffling how do you power off the mvp and how do you start gbpvr with the icon or via the config mvp option?

I used the power button on the remote

I'd be pleased if you could have a look at the musiclibrary plugin as it seems fairly problematic for me at least

tkgafs

mvallevand
2007-02-21, 03:06 AM
I'd be pleased if you could have a look at the musiclibrary plugin as it seems fairly problematic for me at least

There was a logic problem with keystokes not being accepted after a file is fully buffered to the mvpmc playback cache since I hadn't planned on such an interactive plugin as musiclibrary2. If you are interested I try and keep an alpha dongle on http://www.mvpmc.org/~mvallevand with changes I think are worth releasing like this, before I build the source code to mvpmc.

Martin

tkgafs
2007-02-21, 12:59 PM
There was a logic problem with keystokes not being accepted after a file is fully buffered to the mvpmc playback cache since I hadn't planned on such an interactive plugin as musiclibrary2. If you are interested I try and keep an alpha dongle on http://www.mvpmc.org/~mvallevand with changes I think are worth releasing like this, before I build the source code to mvpmc.

Martin

I'll try it out when I get home tonight

Tkgafs

tkgafs
2007-02-22, 12:25 AM
Hi Martin

downloaded your latest alpha mentioned above

musiclibrary2 still problematic

I use the random mode of ml2 [press red button to get a random playlist]

If I simply leave the playlist playing it seems to be ok

if a track is playing and you press the skip button >| on the remote after about 10 seconds the track skips to the next track [with the hauppauge dongle the skip is immediate] but it only plays about 5 secs of music and then stops, if you press play it will play the same 5 seconds again

if you use the arrow keys to navigate around the playlist and press play on a track once again it only plays the first few seconds of the track

is there anything you like me to do to help with debugging

tkgafs

PS just added a debug level logfile which shows what I happens

in this case I started playing Sweetheart By Kevin Coyne let play for a minute of so then skipped forward to the next track in the playlist which is wallflower by peter gabriel

22/02/2007 00:35:36.246 VERBOSE [23] User pressed: 37 :- presumably this is the skip forward

then about 19 seconds after pressing the skip this is logged

22/02/2007 00:35:55.168 VERBOSE [25] About to start playback of Q:\Music\Include\Peter Gabriel\PG IV Security\07 - Wallflower.mp3


then we see
22/02/2007 00:36:02.152 VERBOSE [24] Request 20000 bytes (file size:9478144 file location: 0)

but after that there are no more requests for bytes

I then pressed the down arrow about 4 times to select

22/02/2007 00:36:31.324 VERBOSE [25] About to start playback of Q:\Music\Include\David Bowie\Aladdin Sane\03 - Drive In Saturday.mp3

but once again there is one request for data but no more
22/02/2007 00:36:31.605 VERBOSE [24] Request 20000 bytes (file size:6541085 file location: 0

hope this sheds some light on things

tkgafs
2007-02-22, 01:13 AM
Hi Martin,

just tried changing the mvp screen size/position and it does not seem to work using your latest dongle, although the same settings appear to work correctly with the hauppauge dongle

I used the plugin with your dongle and set the dimensions as follows

x 624
y 504
x offset 44
y offset 36

I am using a 16:9 pal television to view the output

with these settings the image was about 1 cm smaller all round the screen using the hauppauge dongle but unchanged with your dongle

hope you get this dongle working succesfully and I am happy to test things as required

I particularly like being able to power off or reboot with out having to pull the power cord out

Tkgafs

mvallevand
2007-02-22, 01:39 AM
if a track is playing and you press the skip button >| on the remote after about 10 seconds the track skips to the next track [with the hauppauge dongle the skip is immediate] but it only plays about 5 secs of music and then stops, if you press play it will play the same 5 seconds again

if you use the arrow keys to navigate around the playlist and press play on a track once again it only plays the first few seconds of the track

That actually helps a lot.



is there anything you like me to do to help with debugging

What you've done so far is a good start. I can turn on my own debug logging too, but it is a bit technical and you'd have to be able to capture telnet output to a file using putty or redirect to a file on a Windows share



PS just added a debug level logfile which shows what I happens

How can I not help someone else who listens to Kevin Coyne.

Martin

mvallevand
2007-02-22, 01:44 AM
just tried changing the mvp screen size/position and it does not seem to work using your latest dongle, although the same settings appear to work correctly with the hauppauge dongle
I'll try your setting to see how they look. If you have never flashed the Hauppauge saving the aspect ratio, you might need to use the mvpmc command line or main menu setup to change it.



hope you get this dongle working succesfully and I am happy to test things as required

I particularly like being able to power off or reboot with out having to pull the power cord out

I hope so too, and I hope that eventually that there will be to like than easy rebooting!

Martin

HtV
2007-02-22, 04:28 PM
How can I not help someone else who listens to Kevin Coyne.


Sorry to intrude: How is Kevin, last time I heard him must be ~25 yrs ago.:( I worked in a bar that time and there was a cassette from him we played alot. I really liked him then, but kind of forgot about him. Pfew.. brings back memories.:)

mvallevand
2007-02-22, 08:53 PM
Sorry to intrude: How is Kevin, last time I heard him must be ~25 yrs ago.:( I worked in a bar that time and there was a cassette from him we played alot. I really liked him then, but kind of forgot about him. Pfew.. brings back memories.:)

No problem intruding, this thread should probably be ended anyway, and I prefer new threads for each problem.

I haven't listened to new Kevin Coyne for years and the playlist entry made me a bit nostalgic too. I really don't know his music after to the '70's , but I still listen to Matching Head and Feet, and it has made the transition from vinyl to CD to digital over the last 30 years. I think it is the British music from that period (when Virgin wasn't an airline), with the Canterbury Scene/Prog Rock that gave me the love of music that I maintain today, and is probably the main reason I need my mvp for Internet radio.

Martin

tkgafs
2007-02-23, 12:28 AM
Sorry to say this but Kevin Coyne died in December 2004, a great loss to music and sadly very underrated.

I urge any of you who havent heard the album to try and hear "Babble" by Kevin Coyne & Dagmar Krause

Tkgafs

HtV
2007-02-23, 08:56 AM
Sorry to say this but Kevin Coyne died in December 2004, a great loss to music and sadly very underrated.


Sorry to hear that.



I urge any of you who havent heard the album to try and hear "Babble" by Kevin Coyne & Dagmar Krause

Tkgafs

Ok I will, thanks fot the (sad) info.

cya Hans

tkgafs
2007-02-24, 09:15 AM
Well,

I only really use my mvp for music playing and it seems to be at least as stable as the normal dongle I was using which was dongle-3_3.24265b.bin

I am still getting the typical random unexplained disconnects,
like this

23/02/2007 21:04:57.093 ERROR [27] MVP Timer Refresh error: An existing connection was forcibly closed by the remote host
23/02/2007 21:04:57.578 ERROR [27] at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.Send(Byte[] buffer, Int32 offset, Int32 size, SocketFlags socketFlags)
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.Send(Byte[] buffer)
at GBPVR.xbb1566157f5f8b1f.xcca58d4608994dd8(Point x557cda7ca079f710, Rectangle x19534874af95b268, Bitmap x84901bd355736ef6, Boolean x484012b92f24af4e)
at GBPVR.xbb1566157f5f8b1f.xe75b6be209ce111f(Image x84901bd355736ef6)
at GBPVR.xbb1566157f5f8b1f.xb1cbc922a07ef39b(Object xdf2e3583f942db7b, EventArgs xc4f45905cb1fc7ba)


which I hope that Martin might eventually be able to fix

As I type this I am running gbpvr in debug mode and ML2 with the setting "insane amount of logging" in the hope that something useful might be detected.

I cant watch Livetv with this dongle but I cant with the other one either and have never been able to make that work with any version of gbpvr

I use the following plugins xrecord,weather,rss newsfeed, international cinema, musiclibrary 2, uburadio and they all seem to work just the same as with the other dongle

the great advantage to me with this dongle is that if the mvp does disconnect it just falls back to the mvpmc screen and you press emulation menu item and off you go again no need to powercycle the MVP, a great improvement

tkgafs

jksmurf
2007-02-26, 12:58 AM
jksmurf, as a follow up, when I configure gbpvr to auto start more then one server even the added 20 second delay goes away so I am not sure why you are seeing the problem you do. MartinMartin,

Sorry been away on leave. I see tkgafs reports the same delay after the initial bootup. It's not REALLY a problem TBH, just an observation. We all want "instant bootup" and I use the green Power Button on the remote like tkgafs.

k.

mvallevand
2007-02-26, 01:44 AM
Martin,

Sorry been away on leave. I see tkgafs reports the same delay after the initial bootup. It's not REALLY a problem TBH, just an observation. We all want "instant bootup" and I use the green Power Button on the remote like tkgafs.

k.

I'll try some things, if you haven't turn off mythtv or replaytv support via the web browser their discovery might be causing a delay.

Martin