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reven
2012-12-04, 08:18 PM
Bugger. Web Console, XBMC, NEWA ... it's all too much for me. Next thing, I'll be able to run NPVR on my phone ... Oh! Wait ...

my intention is to get this at a point where its stable and feature complete, then request sub replace NEWA with this as the standard web application as its using newer technology with separation of UI and code (NEWA has a lot of CSS hardcoded in the code behind), has a full API at its core and lets you fully configure NextPVR in a headless environment. Not trying to say NEWA is bad or anything, its just old and out of date. I want something that is on par with the NextPVR app.

its pretty stable now, i just think ive scared too many people off with my warnings on the announcement post, didnt want people complaining of destroyed systems (but that wouldnt happen)

KaraokeStu
2012-12-06, 12:50 PM
Absolutely cracking!

steeb
2012-12-06, 11:58 PM
my intention is to get this at a point where its stable and feature complete, then request sub replace NEWA with this as the standard web application as its using newer technology with separation of UI and code (NEWA has a lot of CSS hardcoded in the code behind), has a full API at its core and lets you fully configure NextPVR in a headless environment. Not trying to say NEWA is bad or anything, its just old and out of date. I want something that is on par with the NextPVR app.

its pretty stable now, i just think ive scared too many people off with my warnings on the announcement post, didnt want people complaining of destroyed systems (but that wouldnt happen)

Hiya Reven, I would have thought that the only thing that may have scared people off is these very bold statements. I understand that you were once very active here as part of the GB-PVR community. And it is very exciting that you are back here again. It is all IMHO about how posts are written? And I get them wrong most of the time.

I probably read this wrong but if I read it as I did that is going to potentially F off a load of members....

Do you know how hard it was just getting people to switch to NextPVR? And a new wiki?

cheers

steeb

UncleJohnsBand
2012-12-07, 12:29 AM
my intention is to get this at a point where its stable and feature complete, then request sub replace NEWA with this as the standard web application as its using newer technology with separation of UI and code (NEWA has a lot of CSS hardcoded in the code behind), has a full API at its core and lets you fully configure NextPVR in a headless environment. Not trying to say NEWA is bad or anything, its just old and out of date. I want something that is on par with the NextPVR app.

its pretty stable now, i just think ive scared too many people off with my warnings on the announcement post, didnt want people complaining of destroyed systems (but that wouldnt happen)


Hiya Reven, I would have thought that the only thing that may have scared people off is these very bold statements. I understand that you were once very active here as part of the GB-PVR community. And it is very exciting that you are back here again. It is all IMHO about how posts are written? And I get them wrong most of the time.

I probably read this wrong but if I read it as I did that is going to potentially F off a load of members....

Do you know how hard it was just getting people to switch to NextPVR? And a new wiki?

cheers

steeb

Have to agree with steeb..... I take this as the web console is great....NEWA is old and sucks.....lets move on to what I developed and what I think is best for everyone.

I am aslo disappointed at not even being asked to be part of the development effort at the get go.

Maybe it is just time for me to retire.

johnsonx42
2012-12-07, 02:40 AM
Yeah, when I saw Reven's post I thought: that's not going to go over well. At all. With anyone.

UJB, don't let this discourage you.

mvallevand
2012-12-07, 03:28 AM
I'm sure that sub won't make drastic changes without giving thought for what's best for nextpvr, but there does seem to be a need for better private communication with devs. UJB I'm a big NEWA fan don't give. My comment to sub on UltiDev Pro was to give you a better backend not because I think NEWA needs replacing.

Martin

reven
2012-12-07, 03:48 AM
Have to agree with steeb..... I take this as the web console is great....NEWA is old and sucks.....lets move on to what I developed and what I think is best for everyone.

I am aslo disappointed at not even being asked to be part of the development effort at the get go.

Maybe it is just time for me to retire.

really not what i meant or intended.

personally whenever something is being original developed in the open source world, I find it works quicker and better when theres one developer getting everything in place, or a really tight team whose worked together before. When its a few that havent done anything, i find it slows people down.

i do this as job full time, im a professional web developer so I can make this fairly quickly, do it right from the get go and get the foundations in there. I've always been a fan of GBPVR, i used it for many years, the only reason I ever left was the GUI wasnt on par with XBMC, i dont use XBMC primarily for TV, i use it for streaming content, but i do still watch tv, but i rather have limited tv playback options than no hulu etc.

the web console is open source, its on github, anyone can fork it and make pull requests, its not a closed project.

im not planning on replacing NEWA any time soon, but lets be honest (not trying to hurt anyones feelings or anything, just lets being honest), NEWA is pretty old (it is), its code base has been around for a long time and been extended over time, doing anything major to it would be a lot more work than starting fresh. attempting to reskin NEWA would be a lot more work, theres a lot of hardcoded css and javascript in the code behind which is a good separation of concerns (ive done this myself in past projects, its what you sometimes did for webforms apps, its not the right way of doing it, but sometimes its the quickest and gets the job done).

I want to replicated everything people really want from NEWA into this web console, i dont want to force something down users throats that removes features. that why i released it as alpha (its pretty stable atm, its got unit tests, easy setup with installer), but it MUST BE ROCK SOLID! simple as that, it cannot break, it must always work. if this is going to be a full front end to configure NextPVR, it cannot break.

having said that, I want nextpvr to step forward, I want to be able to have nextpvr as a server application for the users who want to just use it as a tv server (i believe more xbmc users will come to nextpvr now and not use the gui at all). So i want to configure *everything* from a web application. I want that application to be modern, want it use the latest technologies and be fast and responsive, i want it to work everywhere I am.

as a developer, i want a common api that is open and feature rich.

theres be many plugins for nextpvr in the past, theres been some community effort to consolidate things, but at the end of the day that never really happened, there was my attempt with the "GBPVR Library" (i believe me and one other developer used this but no one else picked it up) there was JavaWizs (???) one but closed off really.

we need something that is open, that is modern, that is written well and is easy to maintain and brings nextpvr on par with other PVRs out there.

get offended if you must, but its true, if you compare NEWA to For the Records web interface, theres no contest, NEWA looks old and bloated. if you want to raise your pitchforks at me and try run me out of town, so be it, im just trying to bring something to the community that i believe is missing.

reven
2012-12-07, 03:56 AM
what I honestly need right now if anyone wants to contribute it testers, different systems, different configurations, also any developer please write some unit tests, unit tests are such an important part that will help this project out a lot.

if you want to do a bug fix, make fork and do a pull request. if you want to add a feature, make a thread and lets discuss it, get community input.

personally i feel things like
- Picture Library
- Music Library
- Video Library
dont really need to be in the web front end, if i want to share that stuff theres better ways of doing it without reinventing the wheel (to use a overly used cliche), but theres Plex media server (and many many others), which will share to many many clients, have meta data etc, and isnt tied down to one web app. theres a plex plugin for nextpvr which i think is great and personally i rather use that if i was going to use nextpvr as my mediacenter so many different clients have all the same info/watched status/etc.

johnsonx42
2012-12-07, 05:32 AM
reven what's missing from your otherwise reasonable and factual argument is a measure of respect for UJB's work and commitment over the years. Every time sub adds new features to the NPVR core, UJB makes the needed changes to NEWA. UJB worked to add whatever Martin needed for X-NEWA. Sub includes NEWA with NPVR (and EWA with GB-PVR before it) because he knows he can count on UJB every time. All we really have from you is that you want a flashier and more modern web interface so you can configure NRecord and then use XBMC. I do get where you're coming from with wanting to make something theoretically better than what's there now, but before you talk big plans to replace UJB's work we'd all need to see some real commitment from you. Including UJB early on would have been a big help too.

UncleJohnsBand
2012-12-07, 05:43 AM
1st.....and foremost...... let me say the web console is a nice piece of work....looks good, is responsive and is using a state-of-the-art framework.... nice job reven! I believe it will (at some point) replace NEWA....and that is ok and support it so long as sevices in NEWA can ve carried forward into the web console (i.e. web service interface for data and recording, robust transcoding capbilities via VLC (sub's ffmpeg just doen't cut it))


really not what i meant or intended.
personally whenever something is being original developed in the open source world, I find it works quicker and better when theres one developer getting everything in place, or a really tight team whose worked together before. When its a few that havent done anything, i find it slows people down.
Yes...when you have a single person providing the focus things naturally go quicker......and having to learn to work with people you haven't worked with before will take more time.....but you also loose the oportunity for knowledge, wisdom and experience that you yourself may not posses. Over the years I have made myself as open as possible to accomodate what people are asking for. Comments such as "If the only info thats missing currently is subtitle I will add that in, but I don't want to pollute the interface with way too much info, but subtitle wont do that." simply sends the message that you are the guard and it is ok if it passes your inspection but if not than it is a pollutant. I know you probably did not mean for it to be that way.....but at face value.... that is what your word choice conveys.



i do this as job full time, im a professional web developer so I can make this fairly quickly, do it right from the get go and get the foundations in there.
I manage a large web development team for 15 years now and am also a developer. I understand "how to do things right from the get go"...... another poor choice in wording conveying that you know what you are doing and others probably don't.



the web console is open source, its on github, anyone can fork it and make pull requests, its not a closed project.
That is good news.



im not planning on replacing NEWA any time soon, but lets be honest (not trying to hurt anyones feelings or anything, just lets being honest), NEWA is pretty old (it is), its code base has been around for a long time and been extended over time, doing anything major to it would be a lot more work than starting fresh. attempting to reskin NEWA would be a lot more work, theres a lot of hardcoded css and javascript in the code behind which is a good separation of concerns (ive done this myself in past projects, its what you sometimes did for webforms apps, its not the right way of doing it, but sometimes its the quickest and gets the job done).
No argument here... NEWA was built from EWA which was baselined a long time ago. It was structured to align to GBPVR/NPVR. With a complete web service interface a new front-end (which I admittedly suck at) would not be difficult. i.e. X-NEWA consumes it.



I want to replicated everything people really want from NEWA into this web console, i dont want to force something down users throats that removes features.
What is in NEWA that people don't want? Per my other comment the features within NEWA are there because of users wanting them there.



that why i released it as alpha (its pretty stable atm, its got unit tests, easy setup with installer), but it MUST BE ROCK SOLID! simple as that, it cannot break, it must always work. if this is going to be a full front end to configure NextPVR, it cannot break.
Yep....needs to be solid



having said that, I want nextpvr to step forward, I want to be able to have nextpvr as a server application for the users who want to just use it as a tv server (i believe more xbmc users will come to nextpvr now and not use the gui at all). So i want to configure *everything* from a web application. I want that application to be modern, want it use the latest technologies and be fast and responsive, i want it to work everywhere I am.
Agree here as well......but NEWA moved as GBPVR/NPVR moved.....so since it was not .Net 4.x then the web interface stayed with .Net 2 to align to sub's direction....which I periodically checked back on to see if there was movement to a newer .Net version allowing a different interface such as you created.



as a developer, i want a common api that is open and feature rich.
Tthe NEWA Web Service API isn't open and feature rich in regards to UI? (NEWA was never designed as a NPVR configruation tool) I thought web services were common and open.



we need something that is open, that is modern, that is written well and is easy to maintain and brings nextpvr on par with other PVRs out there.
Not disagreeing here either..... except that NEWA is written well and is easy to maintain.... for the framework it was born into and forced to stay in.



get offended if you must, but its true, if you compare NEWA to For the Records web interface, theres no contest, NEWA looks old and bloated. if you want to raise your pitchforks at me and try run me out of town, so be it, im just trying to bring something to the community that i believe is missing.
The development of the web console does not offend me.....and I agree that something more modern is needed. What offends me is the attitude and condensention I pick up in your posts.......even this last line of your post is a stand-offish.

I am hoping that this is simply classic example of simple poor word choice conveying an attitude that really does not exist....I have seen it before.

I am looking forward to digging into your code and helping to extend things out that are needed.

reven
2012-12-07, 09:52 AM
i had a big post written out explaining stuff, but at the end of the day its tiring and kinda pointless.

im not trying to piss anyone off, if you guys dont want this ill just pack my bag and leave. if you do want a newer web console which is community driven and open source can we just stop all this fighting and move forward?

im not stopping anyone helping out with this console, im just trying to give it clear direction and focus it. its early days and im more worried about getting the core of it right than to complicate the interface with halved baked features.

my goals are
- API at core which every client communicates via the same way, so code is reused and solid (no duplication or variations of behaviour)
- latest technologies so runs on all device, desktops, tablets, phones, xbmc
- visually appealing and professional.
- fully headless system
- extremely stable

at the end of the day its up to the community as to what they want.

Jakesty
2012-12-07, 11:51 AM
I would just say that support and testing are important, but even more so is collaboration and involvement from the community. Because as time goes on your availability or desire to continue to help or support this new interface may change and it's best to have others who may be able to continue where you left off. Collaboration with others who have "lived" with these changes can really help you too in determining the right path.

I like your fortitude and would love to see continued development. I hope we all can make this the best possible product there is. Thank you for your time and development skills.

Jake

reven
2012-12-07, 08:52 PM
i also used this project to learn more knockoutjs, webapi and signalr, i used it as a research task at work. i needed to learn those technologies and was looking for a real world application to learn them against (fake stuff never turns up real problems that you need to overcome, like the tv guide, i tried 3 different methods of rendering that to optimise the speed).

im wanting to use this to learn more jquery mobile (or another mobile framework) and the mobile support in MVC. Also will likely try developing a windows phone 8 / windows 8 app at one point using the API. thats my main reason as to wanting to do all the foundations myself, to actually learn the technology.

ive been a professional web developer for the past 6.5 years, working with
- ASP
- ASP.net webforms 1.1
- ASP.net webforms 2
- ASP.net ajax
- ASP.net mvc2
- ASP.net mvc3
- ASP.net mvc4
- javascript
- jquery
- jquery ui
- Webservices
- WCF services
- IIS 6 and 7
- WMI
- C# windows services and winforms
- HTML 5 and CSS 3
- web app testing using selenium, watin, autoit (gui testing)

I work on MailMarshal SPE which is basically a web front end for MailMarshal, it takes that product and makes it do something it wasnt designed to do, by taking a single customer product and making it a multi customer product. Much as ive done with NextPVR, making a single user application a multiple user application.

i do have the background and skill set to get the foundations right on my own but want to make it open so the project would benefit from community input.

i do consider this my project, as much as UJB would consider NEWA his project (which is clear from all the *hatred* towards this, not from UJB necessarily, just the feeling im getting. Theres been lots of talk about how im putting NEWA down, but my point of view is you're ragging on me, i was just trying to explain why i believe a new web frontend is needed). im sure its just the conversation medium, text not conveying tone and im reading it wrong, but thats the feeling im getting.

i rather be open and honest, discuss the flaws of NEWA so the webconsole doesnt suffer the same flaws. Discuss the benefits of NEWA so webconsole can incorporate those. discuss the flaws in the webconsole so they can be fixed.

I have no intentions of asking sub to replace NEWA in the next release, maybe not even the release after that, it may never replace it, but thats my ultimate goal, but for that to happen it must
- have community support
- be rock solid (unit tests help here, and by using WebAPI and MVC writing unit tests becomes very easy, in webforms theyre very very hard to do)
- feature rich but not feature bloated
- full API so other developers dont need to write their own API service to communicate with NextPVR.

steeb
2012-12-07, 10:13 PM
Arrrgggghhhhh,

all I read from you reven is blah blah, take it or don't!

That is not what I believe has been said to you?

Read, look, listen?

Like cutting wood measure once, measure again, then make sure you measured the 3rd time before you cut?

Soooo frustrating. Why pack your bags and leave? Why upset people before you have begun and then pack your bags any way?

And why am I saying this? Because I have upset soooo many members on this forum I would not want you to do the same :eek:

cheers

steeb

reven
2012-12-07, 10:25 PM
i meant if no one wants to use it, then theres no point me really releasing it is there? I spent a few days working on the installer to make it easy for people to use, something I personally didnt need to use. ill continue to work on it as ill use it, but really why release it if theres no want for it???

what im taking from this is NEWA is fine, it works and theres no desire from some people to replace it and i get the feeling some people (not UJB) is pissed off im even trying to saying why i believe its need, and people are defending the person UJB because of his all his hard work (which is fine hes done a great job and done it for a long time) but not really admitting to the reality that is NEWA and how it compares to other PVR web consoles out there. seriously look at NEWA and look at for the records web interface.

I believe NEWA major problem is its age, its just old and using old technlogies, not saying its rubbish, not saying is poorly written, not saying its crap or anything. I'm just saying its old. look at gmail 5 years ago to what it is now, gmail 5 years ago was awesome, but now its a lot better and looks a lot better.

this webconsole isnt closed, its open its a step forward seriously cant we all just admit the situation and move forward?

steeb
2012-12-07, 10:46 PM
Agreed,

I don't believe anyone is defending anyone, it is how it is approached?

I am certain that the web console will be very highly used.

I am not defending anyone, just speaking on part of a community I think I am part of.

All I said at the start was not against the intention BUT the approach?

That is all I read in your responses, IMHO you were not hearing the team?

I do not know what to say more over.

I really think the web console looks fantastic.

cheers

steeb

mvallevand
2012-12-07, 11:14 PM
I am actually looking forward to trying it, but I'm also trying to get xbmc beta 2 running WELL on so many clients is taking all my time now. I disagree with steeb (not surprisingly) I think you have made your point and in no way do I want you to stop.

I rarely use NEWA much through the browser, and I don't personally need multiple users although I wish sub's core supported it, My concern is I am not sure why we need a second web service since if you check the WSDL's that UJB provides I think they are a already pretty complete abstraction of sub's API's it is well thought out and nicely documented The fact that sub, you and bgowland all decided to develop your own has seemed a bit odd.

As for GPL, I have found with x-newa it is a nuisance because NextPVR is closed source. If sub releases a beta you are limited to what you can release even to beta testers. UJB distributes his code too so it still allows updating. I'm sure if someone create a more modern look he'd add it.

Some of us remember this though http://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?36035-yeah-im-back so you have left a few times.

Martin

stustunz
2012-12-08, 02:12 AM
yeah reven you got me excited 2 years ago with Videos plugin where the f%$k is it :D

bgowland
2012-12-08, 04:04 AM
...if you check the WSDL's that UJB provides I think they are a already pretty complete abstraction of sub's API's it is well thought out and nicely documented The fact that sub, you and bgowland all decided to develop your own has seemed a bit odd.I use NEWA's web-services for a lot of nDroid via the nDroid Service which basically just acts as a proxy. It was a no-brainer Martin - developing Android apps to talk directly to .NET Web Services is a PITA and horribly slow and inefficient in real-world use. nDroid also needed to be available off-line in my design model which basically negates any direct query of things like the TV Guide etc so needed the 'proxy' aspect to create the mirror of the various DB tables...I could go on.

UJB was very helpful in helping me understand .NET Web Services in general but experiments showed direct access didn't fit my design (or even efficiency of any mobile platform outside of a high-speed wireless LAN) - another reason for the nDroid Service 'proxy'..

Anyway, I hadn't intended to post on this thread but you did mention my name.

Cheers,
Brian

reven
2012-12-08, 04:12 AM
I left last time because of xbmc. I've never really left xbmc in a few years. I don't see me leaving nextpvr any time soon now with xbmc support

Basically the webconsole reimplements subs API just so I can provide users support to xbmc. But all the. Methods are called the exact same way and return the exact same output. I'm hoping that if this one day bundled with the core nextpvr that this API is used over subs one. As its open source. Sub could easily make code changes to it as well. Just saves having two different ports open

Then there's the more complete API which exposes everything. News doesn't do this as it does support configuring over nextpvr itself. Also being a restful API it's a little easier to use on some platforms. I'm using Juergen everywhere that talks to the API directly.

Like I said. I wrote this to learn some technology. I needed to learn webapi so I couldnt just reuse the newa API. This project was alway about using the latest and greatest tech and bringing nextpvr web front into 2012/2013.

Also if I said I was going to start rewriting it from the get go I'm sure I would of had more opposition and questioning. By actually provided a feature rich alpha, open source, unit tested webapp. I'm hoping you see how serious I am about this and what the quality of my work will be like

Written from iPhone so many having typos :)

mvallevand
2012-12-08, 04:29 AM
I use NEWA's web-services for a lot of nDroid via the nDroid Service which basically just acts as a proxy. It was a no-brainer Martin - developing Android apps to talk directly to .NET Web Services is a PITA and horribly slow and inefficient in real-world use.

Thanks for the clarification, I thought you might use NEWA too and would be impacted if sub removed it. For sure SOAP is not the best for the EPG data the 200 channels takes too a long time with x-newa on Android and also on low-end CPU linux machines like the RPi too but there seems to too many that solutions coming before there is a lot of discussion on how to best serve these platforms. It is not just the protocol though caching to SD card and internal NAND is quite a bottleneck, so maybe Plex got it right.

Martin

stustunz
2012-12-08, 06:03 AM
I'm looking forward to your app

reven
2012-12-08, 06:12 AM
Thanks for the clarification, I thought you might use NEWA too and would be impacted if sub removed it. For sure SOAP is not the best for the EPG data the 200 channels takes too a long time with x-newa on Android and also on low-end CPU linux machines like the RPi too but there seems to too many that solutions coming before there is a lot of discussion on how to best serve these platforms. It is not just the protocol though caching to SD card and internal NAND is quite a bottleneck, so maybe Plex got it right.

Martin

thats why any replacement for NEWA would have to be community supported and not replace NEWA over night. like i said not planning of even considering asking sub to replace NEWA for the next release, and most likely not even the release after that.

this API is completely open source and will be driven by the needs of the community. being restful/json/xml pretty much any language can easily talk to it and its low bandwidth (json + gzip == very small data, could even do bson to reduce bandwidth further).

basically the api works like

base url


http://server:port/api


guide stuff


http://server:port/api/guide?date=day&group=groupname


recordings


GET = http://server:port/api/recordings, returns a list of all available recordings for the user
GET = http://server:port/api/recordings/recordingoid, return actual recording instance
DELETE = http://server:port/api/recodings/recordingoid deletes single recording, if allowed to by user
DELETE= http://server:port/api/recordings/recurring/recurringoid, deletes recurring instance, if allowed to by user


etc, so its URL driven and everything returns a json/xml object (I need to add some serialization for some objects for xml output, but this is easy and I just havent gotten around to it yet).

i do need to test out some kinda authorization stuff, at moment web apps are easy since its just session stuff in asp.net with the cookies. it may work already, just havent tested on any platform other than mvc. but its still at an alpha stage and this is easy to add, so ill add it when needed in the beta.

Just so we're clear, I want this to replace NEWA, but not any time soon. and only if the community is behind it and agrees its a step forward and in the right direction.

I finally think we're getting somewhere, which is what i want this discussion to be about, an open and honest thing to clear the whole thing up :)

mvallevand
2012-12-08, 04:39 PM
this API is completely open source and will be driven by the needs of the community. being restful/json/xml pretty much any language can easily talk to it and its low bandwidth (json + gzip == very small data, could even do bson to reduce bandwidth further).
I don't think bandwidth is the issue, these devices can stream HD afterall, it is parsing huge JSON, SOAP or TCP messages with the low powered CPU

Martin

reven
2012-12-08, 08:49 PM
bandwidth is an issue on mobile devices, think scheduling a recording when you're not at home from you phone.

mvallevand
2012-12-08, 10:18 PM
Scheduling only takes a few hundred bytes. What I was trying to get at was bgowland came up with solution for nDroid, X-NEWA caches SOAP as python pickles for XBMC, sub as always goes alone because he controls his side, and you and your community (which might include me one day) will offer another solution. Getting the EPG to get the event id that you need to schedule is the challenge, and it has nothing to do with JSON, SOAP, WSDL, it is a significant challenge that is certainly not addressed simply. The NEWA web service could easily send JSON gzip, bson or any message that Web Console can, but it doesn't address the fundamental issue, and I still haven't found one solid reason to think that Web Console provides a stronger backend for mobile clients than NEWA.

Martin

reven
2012-12-09, 12:49 AM
There's no real reason for the web console to provide a better API than newa

But this API will support users, sending epg data is huge, talking megabytes in raw format. So bson could be very important for mobile clients. Newer tech just makes it easier to send multiple output formats from the same methods. WCF made it pretty easy to send Json or XML. Webapi makes it even easier and easier to work with with non .net languages like JavaScript

There's basically turn Apis, ones a wrapper for the core which the xbmc client talks to. This mimics subs API layer. And the full one off /API/.

My goal is just have a community driven API that everyone will hopefully use (then very client can get user support)

Written on iPhone so may have typos

bgowland
2012-12-09, 02:54 AM
There's no evidence that using BSON is more efficient than JSON in every case - it all depends on the scenario (data types, number of records and so on) - it's "designed" to be more efficient but it doesn't always work out that way. Moreover, JSON is only slightly more efficient WRT file/data size than fully structured (formatted) XML in tests I've done but, again, depends on things like number of records and data types.

There are a number of aspects that contribute. The first is the efficiency of different libraries on different platforms used to generate and consume the data (e.g., libraries for C#, Java, iOS etc). The second, as Martin points out, is the capability of the mobile hardware (speed of mobile connection, speed of CPU, efficiency of saving to temp storage to decompress/parse EPG data etc).

In reality there will be a bottleneck somewhere but the main problem I have with any system which requires a "live" connection from mobile device is the inability to do certain things off-line such as browse/search the TV Guide.

reven
2012-12-09, 03:08 AM
only thing im talking about is text encoding (json) to binary encoding (bson) binary would obviously provide a better bandwidth performance. sure it may be only a slight reduction in some cases, but still definitely worth looking into.

this isnt a BSON will replace JSON talk, the api will support JSON, XML and like BSON as well, its not one or the other. the data sent back will be exactly the same, it will just be wrapped differently depending on the "content-type" requested.

therse absolutely no reason why a mobile device cannot do things like a search offline, all you have to do is pass the EPG data to the client and on the client store it in a database (html5 has a database built in now, i was writing a jquery app for 4therecord which stored everything in the html5 db which worked just fine).

i personally wouldnt do a search offline, but theres not reason why it cannot be done. HTML5 and javascript are really powerful now.

jksmurf
2012-12-10, 12:13 AM
I rarely use NEWA much through the browser, and I don't personally need multiple users Martin

Just an interested user perspective. I almost "exclusively" use NEWA, I do all my autorecords through it, works wonderfully and ... is ... simple and uncluttered. I don't use the css version so maybe I'm a neo-luddite in that respect, and like Martin I do not need multiple users, but I can see why some would. UJB has been great (and a constant) in fulfilling support requests and making most wishlist requests come true.

If needs must, and we do end up with an-singing all-dancing new web interface, then my greatest hope is that the same level of support remains a constant (granted, this is a hard-ask for what is a free plugin, but that's my wish all the same).

k.

ACTCMS
2012-12-10, 12:28 AM
Just an interested user perspective. I almost "exclusively" use NEWA+1 except I use it for my manual recordings too and I use the css version.

Alex

topcat
2013-03-14, 07:15 PM
just a quick note.

as a long GBPVR / NextPvr user around the house and on the move.

Change is difficult I agree, I waited about a year before upgrading to Nextpvr.
However after getting used to the new interface I now do like.

Considering it still runs on the same old windows XP box!!!, i just keep sticking bigger hard drives in it. :)

I will be interested in this new web console app, i know in the past sub had made some changes to the newa which i use on an hourly basis.

So when i find a window to upgrade, between program recordings, I'll let you know.

PS I code in Dot Net 2 and 4 :)

Thankyou in advanced