NextPVR Forums

Following some other threads that have been going re documentation and Wiki, would a sticky at top of documentation forum giving what may be considered essential page links from the Wiki be a good idea?

Given a poll I did it does appear that all new users will head to forum 1st for getting answers to some questions.... by asking the same ones again, and again, and again...... etc

I include myself in this as when I 1st joined GBPVR community the Wiki wasn't as cared for as it is now and I just posted questions and got fairly immediate answers to them.

Having said that there seems to be such a general dis-interest in the Wiki overall that maybe there's no point in updating it and trying to improve it?

It works well for Plugins as the Authors keep that going and a couple of Wiki Elves have done LOADS of work improving it but is it worth it?

Cheers

Steeb

steeb Wrote:It works well for Plugins as the Authors keep that going and a couple of Wiki Elves have done LOADS of work improving it but is it worth it?

Regarding questions in the forum, I agree, but it would easily change if we would like to put the effort in providing the solution in the wiki and linking the answer in the forum. But I also don't see the necessity of providing all facts in the wiki. I do like the manual part going through the different screen-shots in the configuration tool.

Personally, I don't find my way around the wiki any-more, but since other people have turned the wiki into what it is, I don't mind :p. My assumption is that all changes people do are meant to be to the better, in some way.

My personal belief is also that large redesigns by single people are doomed, since if it's only a single person striving for a goal, that goal will be gone when the person stops actively working for it. But I don't blame people for trying (until now, but this rant does not count ;-)

The wiki was created mainly to allow people to maintain the plugins, and I still believe that department thrives.

Quote:Regarding questions in the forum, I agree, but it would easily change if we would like to put the effort in providing the solution in the wiki and linking the answer in the forum. But I also don't see the necessity of providing all facts in the wiki. I do like the manual part going through the different screen-shots in the configuration tool.

I completely agree with this point. By its nature the Wiki is slow to get updated and the Forum gives immediate answers. BUT there are a few questions that come round and round again and get posted to each and every time with a unique response, or posted with a link to another thread. All I was suggesting was perhaps a concentration of these particular problems with a sticky on this thread that anyone could head to on the Wiki. Oh and yes like you say with something like all the work an elf did on configuration nice screen-shots and everything

Quote:Personally, I don't find my way around the wiki any-more, but since other people have turned the wiki into what it is, I don't mind . My assumption is that all changes people do are meant to be to the better, in some way.

Seriously Blader, you can't find way around Wiki any more? I love your assumption, changes are always meant for the better but doesn't mean they are!

Quote:My personal belief is also that large redesigns by single people are doomed, since if it's only a single person striving for a goal, that goal will be gone when the person stops actively working for it. But I don't blame people for trying (until now, but this rant does not count ;-)

I agree but there does seem to be a hard core of people at the moment who are asking questions first and putting things to the community before playing. I don't think that was even close to a rant!

Quote:The wiki was created mainly to allow people to maintain the plugins, and I still believe that department thrives.

Really? I didn't know that as I said the plugins and their authors keep that bit very trim, and it does thrive. But is that all that the Wiki exists for :confused:

Cheers

Steeb

blader_se Wrote:My personal belief is also that large redesigns by single people are doomed,

rubbing hands together with evil laugh.....

Here is my que to say I went ahead with an overhaul of the sidebar menu. Makes it less distracting IMHO that most of the side bar items are expanding menus. I left the manual stuff as an expanded menu, since that probably is the main focus for users looking for additional setup info.

Just hijacking this thread instead of starting a new one for now.

Fatman_do Wrote:Here is my que to say I went ahead with an overhaul of the sidebar menu. Makes it less distracting IMHO that most of the side bar items are expanding menus. I left the manual stuff as an expanded menu, since that probably is the main focus for users looking for additional setup info.

I guess I did not count "the little left area-fix" as "a large redesign by a single person" when writing that, because I did not think of that one.
Sorry :p

steeb Wrote:BUT there are a few questions that come round and round again and get posted to each and every time with a unique response, or posted with a link to another thread. All I was suggesting was perhaps a concentration of these particular problems with a sticky on this thread that anyone could head to on the Wiki.

Aah, I missed that, you mean like the survival thread in the support forum? Would not that thread be flooded if anyone could post to it?
My cynical view is that some "beginners" search forums before posting questions, others don't...
There is a FAQ, which I think was a good initiative, but development there have slowed down.

steeb Wrote:But is that all that the Wiki exists for :confused

I'd like to ask:

- What do you want the wiki to be like?

Myself, I want the wiki mainly as:
A place for plugin and skin authors to contribute, and a place for users to find the plugin/skin they are looking for.
A reference manual that shows all the settings of the configuration program and explains what the different settings are used for. I also like the KeyboardReference.
If I ever were to create something of my own, I would like development sections for creating plugins and skinning to get me started.
Come to think of it, a walkthrough of GB-PVR (as for the configuration program) targeted for the before-first-time-users as an introduction could also serve as a show-and-tell of new features for oldies like myself .

I don't see the wiki as a primary place for "beginners" to get answers to their questions (beside the manual part). I see it more as a place to document what you learn as a way to help others. I created the wiki as "I liked to have it", not as "I thought someone else (a beginner) would like to see it". As I see it, you don't stay "beginner" very long, either you don't like GB-PVR or you learn more, so the "beginner" is a constantly changing target audience. I have had the feeling that I'm in minority here, and that is part of the reason I don't change the content of the wiki that actively anymore.

I think this is an interesting subject for any wiki, so what's your view?

I don't use the wiki all that much, but when I do it is to use it as a reference manual.
Things like keyboard <> remote equivalents. Command line tails for pvrx2.exe and the like. How to get and install a plugin (and to see what plugins exist).

There are too many sources of problems with gbpvr to write a comprehensive "service manual" and the "I've tried this and it doesn't work, please help" will always be needed on the forum.

It would be a very sad day to see forum post replies like "it's on the wiki"

martint123 Wrote:It would be a very sad day to see forum post replies like "it's on the wiki"

Agreed. But a reply, AND a wiki link would be good.

@fatmando those changes look good, menu is always a tricky one.

Quote:
A place for plugin and skin authors to contribute, and a place for users to find the plugin/skin they are looking for.
A reference manual that shows all the settings of the configuration program and explains what the different settings are used for. I also like the KeyboardReference.
If I ever were to create something of my own, I would like development sections for creating plugins and skinning to get me started.
Come to think of it, a walkthrough of GB-PVR (as for the configuration program) targeted for the before-first-time-users as an introduction could also serve as a show-and-tell of new features for oldies like myself .

Agree with all of this. But as a reference parts are a little out of date. I quick flick through some of the wiki pages last Friday caught my eye (music libary, FM radio). My posts regarding this has started all the talk of the wiki again.

I would also add that a one-line saying what a button such as Transcode does and then a link to the page covering Transocde options is VERY useful. Also, it's more then a reference, almost a broucher in some cases.

One thing I would like to push is a getting started walkthrough for common tasks. For example, I would take it on myslef to create a "Setting up GB-PVR to use a UK Freeview DVB tuner, including EPG". I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that this is one area which is common to every user. A simple walkthrough for common TV sources in common countries should be part of the wiki.

What shouldn't be part of the wiki is 1 guys attempt at creating a network with 4 MVPs, 3 TV sources and a rubber duck. This kind of discussion is what the forums are for (esp the rubber duck )

McBainUK Wrote:One thing I would like to push is a getting started walkthrough for common tasks. For example, I would take it on myslef to create a "Setting up GB-PVR to use a UK Freeview DVB tuner, including EPG". I think (and correct me if I'm wrong) that this is one area which is common to every user. A simple walkthrough for common TV sources in common countries should be part of the wiki.

Are you talking about something like this?

just my $0.02

The wiki should be the repository for all the gbpvr documentation and reference material. This is where first time users would go to learn about how it all works, how to set it all up, what the various options do, tweaking, skinning, plugins etc.

Troubleshooting and problem solving is for the forum.

Whilst Sub starts a survival guide thread with every new release, it may still be worth having a sticky in the support forum with a link to a wiki FAQ page with answers to commonly asked problems. The wiki would be the best place to hold this as it can more easily be maintained than a thread on the forum.

There may also then be a need for an FAQ thread in the documentation forum to discuss, debate and agree the precise content of the FAQ page.

A sticky link to the documentation wiki in the documentation forum makes sense as that is the forum that people might reasonably gravitate to when looking for gbpvr documentation.

BTW: I do really appreciate all the had work that people have put into the wiki. I would love to help out myself if only I could make more time available in my life. In fact I must pinp Blader_se again to request access....

ACTCMS Wrote:Are you talking about something like this?

Yes.

gEd Wrote:The wiki should be the repository for all the gbpvr documentation and reference material. This is where first time users would go to learn about how it all works, how to set it all up, what the various options do, tweaking, skinning, plugins etc.

Troubleshooting and problem solving is for the forum.

Yes.

gEd Wrote:There may also then be a need for an FAQ thread in the documentation forum to discuss, debate and agree the precise content of the FAQ page.

And...yes!