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Thread: NextPVR Web console to replace NEWA one day?

  1. #1
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    NextPVR Web console to replace NEWA one day?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    Bugger. Web Console, XBMC, NEWA ... it's all too much for me. Next thing, I'll be able to run NPVR on my phone ... Oh! Wait ...
    my intention is to get this at a point where its stable and feature complete, then request sub replace NEWA with this as the standard web application as its using newer technology with separation of UI and code (NEWA has a lot of CSS hardcoded in the code behind), has a full API at its core and lets you fully configure NextPVR in a headless environment. Not trying to say NEWA is bad or anything, its just old and out of date. I want something that is on par with the NextPVR app.

    its pretty stable now, i just think ive scared too many people off with my warnings on the announcement post, didnt want people complaining of destroyed systems (but that wouldnt happen)

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    Absolutely cracking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    my intention is to get this at a point where its stable and feature complete, then request sub replace NEWA with this as the standard web application as its using newer technology with separation of UI and code (NEWA has a lot of CSS hardcoded in the code behind), has a full API at its core and lets you fully configure NextPVR in a headless environment. Not trying to say NEWA is bad or anything, its just old and out of date. I want something that is on par with the NextPVR app.

    its pretty stable now, i just think ive scared too many people off with my warnings on the announcement post, didnt want people complaining of destroyed systems (but that wouldnt happen)
    Hiya Reven, I would have thought that the only thing that may have scared people off is these very bold statements. I understand that you were once very active here as part of the GB-PVR community. And it is very exciting that you are back here again. It is all IMHO about how posts are written? And I get them wrong most of the time.

    I probably read this wrong but if I read it as I did that is going to potentially F off a load of members....

    Do you know how hard it was just getting people to switch to NextPVR? And a new wiki?

    cheers

    steeb
    Last edited by steeb; 2012-12-07 at 12:06 AM.
    When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

    NextPVR Documentation (wiki) admin/contributor


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    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    my intention is to get this at a point where its stable and feature complete, then request sub replace NEWA with this as the standard web application as its using newer technology with separation of UI and code (NEWA has a lot of CSS hardcoded in the code behind), has a full API at its core and lets you fully configure NextPVR in a headless environment. Not trying to say NEWA is bad or anything, its just old and out of date. I want something that is on par with the NextPVR app.

    its pretty stable now, i just think ive scared too many people off with my warnings on the announcement post, didnt want people complaining of destroyed systems (but that wouldnt happen)
    Quote Originally Posted by steeb View Post
    Hiya Reven, I would have thought that the only thing that may have scared people off is these very bold statements. I understand that you were once very active here as part of the GB-PVR community. And it is very exciting that you are back here again. It is all IMHO about how posts are written? And I get them wrong most of the time.

    I probably read this wrong but if I read it as I did that is going to potentially F off a load of members....

    Do you know how hard it was just getting people to switch to NextPVR? And a new wiki?

    cheers

    steeb
    Have to agree with steeb..... I take this as the web console is great....NEWA is old and sucks.....lets move on to what I developed and what I think is best for everyone.

    I am aslo disappointed at not even being asked to be part of the development effort at the get go.

    Maybe it is just time for me to retire.

  5. #5
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    Yeah, when I saw Reven's post I thought: that's not going to go over well. At all. With anyone.

    UJB, don't let this discourage you.
    NPVR Tech Support Sticky - - http://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread...931#post480931
    ---------------------------
    my server: NPVR 4.2.2/Win10Pro 32-bit/AMD A6-7400K/hvr-2250 & hvr-1250 with Winegard Flatwave antenna/Schedules Direct
    playback client: Google Nexus Player running Android 8/Kodi 16.1 (last version with good 1080i MPEG-2 playback) & X-NEWA 2.5.1

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    I'm sure that sub won't make drastic changes without giving thought for what's best for nextpvr, but there does seem to be a need for better private communication with devs. UJB I'm a big NEWA fan don't give. My comment to sub on UltiDev Pro was to give you a better backend not because I think NEWA needs replacing.

    Martin

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleJohnsBand View Post
    Have to agree with steeb..... I take this as the web console is great....NEWA is old and sucks.....lets move on to what I developed and what I think is best for everyone.

    I am aslo disappointed at not even being asked to be part of the development effort at the get go.

    Maybe it is just time for me to retire.
    really not what i meant or intended.

    personally whenever something is being original developed in the open source world, I find it works quicker and better when theres one developer getting everything in place, or a really tight team whose worked together before. When its a few that havent done anything, i find it slows people down.

    i do this as job full time, im a professional web developer so I can make this fairly quickly, do it right from the get go and get the foundations in there. I've always been a fan of GBPVR, i used it for many years, the only reason I ever left was the GUI wasnt on par with XBMC, i dont use XBMC primarily for TV, i use it for streaming content, but i do still watch tv, but i rather have limited tv playback options than no hulu etc.

    the web console is open source, its on github, anyone can fork it and make pull requests, its not a closed project.

    im not planning on replacing NEWA any time soon, but lets be honest (not trying to hurt anyones feelings or anything, just lets being honest), NEWA is pretty old (it is), its code base has been around for a long time and been extended over time, doing anything major to it would be a lot more work than starting fresh. attempting to reskin NEWA would be a lot more work, theres a lot of hardcoded css and javascript in the code behind which is a good separation of concerns (ive done this myself in past projects, its what you sometimes did for webforms apps, its not the right way of doing it, but sometimes its the quickest and gets the job done).

    I want to replicated everything people really want from NEWA into this web console, i dont want to force something down users throats that removes features. that why i released it as alpha (its pretty stable atm, its got unit tests, easy setup with installer), but it MUST BE ROCK SOLID! simple as that, it cannot break, it must always work. if this is going to be a full front end to configure NextPVR, it cannot break.

    having said that, I want nextpvr to step forward, I want to be able to have nextpvr as a server application for the users who want to just use it as a tv server (i believe more xbmc users will come to nextpvr now and not use the gui at all). So i want to configure *everything* from a web application. I want that application to be modern, want it use the latest technologies and be fast and responsive, i want it to work everywhere I am.

    as a developer, i want a common api that is open and feature rich.

    theres be many plugins for nextpvr in the past, theres been some community effort to consolidate things, but at the end of the day that never really happened, there was my attempt with the "GBPVR Library" (i believe me and one other developer used this but no one else picked it up) there was JavaWizs (???) one but closed off really.

    we need something that is open, that is modern, that is written well and is easy to maintain and brings nextpvr on par with other PVRs out there.

    get offended if you must, but its true, if you compare NEWA to For the Records web interface, theres no contest, NEWA looks old and bloated. if you want to raise your pitchforks at me and try run me out of town, so be it, im just trying to bring something to the community that i believe is missing.

  8. #8
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    what I honestly need right now if anyone wants to contribute it testers, different systems, different configurations, also any developer please write some unit tests, unit tests are such an important part that will help this project out a lot.

    if you want to do a bug fix, make fork and do a pull request. if you want to add a feature, make a thread and lets discuss it, get community input.

    personally i feel things like
    - Picture Library
    - Music Library
    - Video Library
    dont really need to be in the web front end, if i want to share that stuff theres better ways of doing it without reinventing the wheel (to use a overly used cliche), but theres Plex media server (and many many others), which will share to many many clients, have meta data etc, and isnt tied down to one web app. theres a plex plugin for nextpvr which i think is great and personally i rather use that if i was going to use nextpvr as my mediacenter so many different clients have all the same info/watched status/etc.

  9. #9
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    reven what's missing from your otherwise reasonable and factual argument is a measure of respect for UJB's work and commitment over the years. Every time sub adds new features to the NPVR core, UJB makes the needed changes to NEWA. UJB worked to add whatever Martin needed for X-NEWA. Sub includes NEWA with NPVR (and EWA with GB-PVR before it) because he knows he can count on UJB every time. All we really have from you is that you want a flashier and more modern web interface so you can configure NRecord and then use XBMC. I do get where you're coming from with wanting to make something theoretically better than what's there now, but before you talk big plans to replace UJB's work we'd all need to see some real commitment from you. Including UJB early on would have been a big help too.
    NPVR Tech Support Sticky - - http://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread...931#post480931
    ---------------------------
    my server: NPVR 4.2.2/Win10Pro 32-bit/AMD A6-7400K/hvr-2250 & hvr-1250 with Winegard Flatwave antenna/Schedules Direct
    playback client: Google Nexus Player running Android 8/Kodi 16.1 (last version with good 1080i MPEG-2 playback) & X-NEWA 2.5.1

  10. #10
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    1st.....and foremost...... let me say the web console is a nice piece of work....looks good, is responsive and is using a state-of-the-art framework.... nice job reven! I believe it will (at some point) replace NEWA....and that is ok and support it so long as sevices in NEWA can ve carried forward into the web console (i.e. web service interface for data and recording, robust transcoding capbilities via VLC (sub's ffmpeg just doen't cut it))

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    really not what i meant or intended.
    personally whenever something is being original developed in the open source world, I find it works quicker and better when theres one developer getting everything in place, or a really tight team whose worked together before. When its a few that havent done anything, i find it slows people down.
    Yes...when you have a single person providing the focus things naturally go quicker......and having to learn to work with people you haven't worked with before will take more time.....but you also loose the oportunity for knowledge, wisdom and experience that you yourself may not posses. Over the years I have made myself as open as possible to accomodate what people are asking for. Comments such as "If the only info thats missing currently is subtitle I will add that in, but I don't want to pollute the interface with way too much info, but subtitle wont do that." simply sends the message that you are the guard and it is ok if it passes your inspection but if not than it is a pollutant. I know you probably did not mean for it to be that way.....but at face value.... that is what your word choice conveys.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    i do this as job full time, im a professional web developer so I can make this fairly quickly, do it right from the get go and get the foundations in there.
    I manage a large web development team for 15 years now and am also a developer. I understand "how to do things right from the get go"...... another poor choice in wording conveying that you know what you are doing and others probably don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    the web console is open source, its on github, anyone can fork it and make pull requests, its not a closed project.
    That is good news.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    im not planning on replacing NEWA any time soon, but lets be honest (not trying to hurt anyones feelings or anything, just lets being honest), NEWA is pretty old (it is), its code base has been around for a long time and been extended over time, doing anything major to it would be a lot more work than starting fresh. attempting to reskin NEWA would be a lot more work, theres a lot of hardcoded css and javascript in the code behind which is a good separation of concerns (ive done this myself in past projects, its what you sometimes did for webforms apps, its not the right way of doing it, but sometimes its the quickest and gets the job done).
    No argument here... NEWA was built from EWA which was baselined a long time ago. It was structured to align to GBPVR/NPVR. With a complete web service interface a new front-end (which I admittedly suck at) would not be difficult. i.e. X-NEWA consumes it.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    I want to replicated everything people really want from NEWA into this web console, i dont want to force something down users throats that removes features.
    What is in NEWA that people don't want? Per my other comment the features within NEWA are there because of users wanting them there.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    that why i released it as alpha (its pretty stable atm, its got unit tests, easy setup with installer), but it MUST BE ROCK SOLID! simple as that, it cannot break, it must always work. if this is going to be a full front end to configure NextPVR, it cannot break.
    Yep....needs to be solid

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    having said that, I want nextpvr to step forward, I want to be able to have nextpvr as a server application for the users who want to just use it as a tv server (i believe more xbmc users will come to nextpvr now and not use the gui at all). So i want to configure *everything* from a web application. I want that application to be modern, want it use the latest technologies and be fast and responsive, i want it to work everywhere I am.
    Agree here as well......but NEWA moved as GBPVR/NPVR moved.....so since it was not .Net 4.x then the web interface stayed with .Net 2 to align to sub's direction....which I periodically checked back on to see if there was movement to a newer .Net version allowing a different interface such as you created.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    as a developer, i want a common api that is open and feature rich.
    Tthe NEWA Web Service API isn't open and feature rich in regards to UI? (NEWA was never designed as a NPVR configruation tool) I thought web services were common and open.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    we need something that is open, that is modern, that is written well and is easy to maintain and brings nextpvr on par with other PVRs out there.
    Not disagreeing here either..... except that NEWA is written well and is easy to maintain.... for the framework it was born into and forced to stay in.

    Quote Originally Posted by reven View Post
    get offended if you must, but its true, if you compare NEWA to For the Records web interface, theres no contest, NEWA looks old and bloated. if you want to raise your pitchforks at me and try run me out of town, so be it, im just trying to bring something to the community that i believe is missing.
    The development of the web console does not offend me.....and I agree that something more modern is needed. What offends me is the attitude and condensention I pick up in your posts.......even this last line of your post is a stand-offish.

    I am hoping that this is simply classic example of simple poor word choice conveying an attitude that really does not exist....I have seen it before.

    I am looking forward to digging into your code and helping to extend things out that are needed.

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