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Thread: Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD PCIe

  1. #71
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    On a intel nuc or Lenovo windows stick you can install NextPVR, and configure it to 'act as a client'.

  2. #72
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    for those of you that just acquired a quad card - do you find the pc more responsive with the the internal card vs the USB tuner? is the cpu load lower/higher may be another question when 1 tuner is playing live tv or a recording?

    I ask as I am using a low end Pentium J3710 cpu. The whole unit only uses about 9W of power when recording and almost nothing on standby with a USB tuner. The cpu shows as using 30-39% and the GPU 20% playing Live tv.

    I tried asking Hauppauge whether to expect more or less load with one tuner playing on a quad card but they would not commit themselves to an answer.
    Last edited by eastavin; 2017-12-08 at 06:14 PM.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastavin View Post
    for those of you that just acquired a quad card - do you find the pc more responsive with the the internal card vs the USB tuner? is the cpu load lower/higher may be another question when 1 tuner is playing live tv or a recording?

    I ask as I am using a low end Pentium J3710 cpu. The whole unit only uses about 9W of power when recording and almost nothing on standby with a USB tuner. The cpu shows as using 30-39% and the GPU 20% playing Live tv.

    I tried asking Hauppauge whether to expect more or less load with one tuner playing on a quad card but they would not commit themselves to an answer.
    The internal PCIe card will always have a faster response. Also if you are using USB ports to record to an external USB Hard Drive you will not hog up the bandwidth by using a USB tuner unless it's on a different controller. On one of my systems it has both USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 ports so you could plug the USB tuners to the USB 2.0 ports since they are not USB 3.0 speeds compliant. Hook the external USB 3.0 drives to the USB 3.0 ports and you should be fine hooking up to 4 USB 2.0 Tuners and recording 4 USB streams to a single USB 3.0 external drive.

    At the moment I just discovered an issue with the WinTV Quad tuner that I didn't notice before. It actually only sees two of the four tuners in NextPVR. It turns out my USB tuners and other PCIe cards were seen just fine so the WinTV Quad was only 50% being used for its intended purpose.

    As far as CPU usage you are more likely to see higher demands on the USB tuners since part of the USB protocol is CPU intensive. Since the internal PCI, PCIe cards are directly connected into the motherboard it's probably much lower having direct access.

    Since I can't do a direct comparison now since I don't use the WINTV software within Vista or W7. In XP the USB tuners or internal PCI/PCIe tuners seem to be about the same response wise when changing channels in WinTV. The part that probably is noticeable is the USB tuners can get hot (single tuners) but since they are external they can cool down. The internal tuners generate some heat and if your chassis is closed the temps go up inside.

    As far as wattage I imagine the WinTV Quad probably should be more efficient than having 4 USB tuners but I don't have 4 USB tuners to do a direct comparison. Since you either lose 4 USB ports or 1 internal slot some would go with the internal PCIe Quad. But another issue is there are no XP drivers for the Quad tuner so you'll have to migrate to Vista+ to use the card. As far as which OS had the best signal channels detected. XP ranked #1, Vista #2, Windows 7 #3 in a test I did years ago on the same PCIe dual tuner, PCI single tuner, and USB single tuner. Surprisingly the USB tuner picked up more channels than the internal cards. It could be the USB has a better tuner inside. I haven't tested the USB dual tuner. I'm hoping a USB quad tuner might be released or an internal octatuner model. Save an extra slot and not have to deal with the extra heat. Also less coaxial connections are necessary. I almost forgot about that as another efficiency if you want less cable clutter.
    Last edited by DVRMultiStreamer; 2018-10-28 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by sub View Post
    I've had this computer for quite a few years now. It an i7-3770k CPU, just using the on-board Intel HD 4400 graphics. 8GB of ram.
    Sub you have similar specs to my DVR. It's actually a Intel HD 4000 you are using. That's the last integrated iGPU from Intel that still works in XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 10. The Intel HD 4400 is Haswell and is the 8th Generation one up so it isn't in your system.

    Haswell was a complete failure in terms of an upgrade so you didn't miss out. Driver support for the Intel HD 4400 dropped XP and Vista and only Windows 7 had driver support for it.

    Getting back to your 16 Channels how many HD channels and SD channels were tuned to simultaneously? Usually a HD channel over here occupies the entire channel number and SD channels can have a bunch of sub channels at least over in the US.

    How do you do activate this 16 channel Split screen in NextPVR? I can only see one Live channel at one time max. It would be nice to see dual or quad split screen live tuned to the programs being recorded.

    Also you mentioned you were using a local version of the WinTV Quad. Apparently the USA version must be different in some way.

    Do you have Windows Vista to test the WinTV Quad tuner in it?

    I used NextPVR v3.9.2 and it only saw 2 of the 4 tuners. The other 2 tuners are missing in action and can't be used.

    Devices will show up as:

    [Tuner 1]
    Type ATSC - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod
    Type QAM - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod

    [Tuner 2]
    Type ATSC - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod2
    Type QAM - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod2


    [Tuner 3] not shown - in Windows 7 this tuner appears and is usable.

    [Tuner 4] not shown - in Windows 7 this tuner appears and is usable.

    Can you fix this WinTV Quad tuner bug in Vista or figure out what's causing it?

    Also I noticed NextPVR v4.0.5 seems to work in Vista but any version after it requires MS.NET v4.8.

    Unfortunately MS.NET 4.0 is the last version that works in XP, Vista, Windows 7, 8, and 10 across the board.

    The last version that works on Vista is MS.NET v4.5.

    What is the reason why you cannot use MS.NET v2.0 to recompile the working binary for NextPVR v4.0 and later versions for the best OS compatibility? Do you need someone to help test the XP and Vista binaries or any other older OS I would be glad to test it out for you. I have almost every WinTV card at my disposal. On the Ivy Bridge DVR unit I do have 98SE, XP, Vista, W7 running on it as a MultiOS system.

    Recompiling for MS.NET v2.0 has the widest OS support.
    .NET Framework 2.0 is supported on Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, Server 2008, and Server 2008 R2
    Also Windows 7 and 10 will support it since MS.NET 4.0 is backwards compatible with older .NET versions.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVRMultiStreamer View Post
    How do you do activate this 16 channel Split screen in NextPVR? I can only see one Live channel at one time max. It would be nice to see dual or quad split screen live tuned to the programs being recorded.
    You can use the -multi command line option to open multiple instances of NextPVR ... http://www.nextpvr.com/nwiki/pmwiki....andLineOptions

    Quote Originally Posted by DVRMultiStreamer View Post
    How do you do activate this 16 channel Split screen in NextPVR? I can only see one Live channel at one time max. It would be nice to see dual or quad split screen live tuned to the programs being recorded.

    I used NextPVR v3.9.2 and it only saw 2 of the 4 tuners. The other 2 tuners are missing in action and can't be used.

    Devices will show up as:

    [Tuner 1]
    Type ATSC - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod
    Type QAM - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod

    [Tuner 2]
    Type ATSC - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod2
    Type QAM - Hauppauge WinTV 885 ATSC Tuner / Dmod2

    [Tuner 3] not shown - in Windows 7 this tuner appears and is usable.

    [Tuner 4] not shown - in Windows 7 this tuner appears and is usable.

    Can you fix this WinTV Quad tuner bug in Vista or figure out what's causing it?
    Go into NextPVR Settings Devices and then zip and post the logs using the button at NextPVR Settings --> About. Thanks.

    But, I suspect that Sub will only want to fix a problem if it is present in the current version of NextPVR.
    i5 750 2.67 GHz, 6 Gig, 1000 Gig, Nvidia N710
    2 x Hauppauge WinTV QuadHD DVB-T2

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVRMultiStreamer View Post
    Sub you have similar specs to my DVR. It's actually a Intel HD 4000 you are using. That's the last integrated iGPU from Intel that still works in XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 10. The Intel HD 4400 is Haswell and is the 8th Generation one up so it isn't in your system.
    Yes, you're correct. It was a Intel HD 4000. It was my old laptop had a Intel HD 4400.

    Getting back to your 16 Channels how many HD channels and SD channels were tuned to simultaneously?
    Our channels are all H.264, so a different kettle of fish from your MPEG2 channels. From memory, I think four of those were HD, and the rest were SD.

    How do you do activate this 16 channel Split screen in NextPVR?
    As Graham mentioned above, running multiple copies of NextPVR with "nextpvr.exe -multi"

    Do you have Windows Vista to test the WinTV Quad tuner in it?
    Nope.

    What is the reason why you cannot use MS.NET v2.0 to recompile the working binary for NextPVR v4.0 and later versions for the best OS compatibility? Do you need someone to help test the XP and Vista binaries or any other older OS I would be glad to test it out for you. I have almost every WinTV card at my disposal. On the Ivy Bridge DVR unit I do have 98SE, XP, Vista, W7 running on it as a MultiOS system.

    Recompiling for MS.NET v2.0 has the widest OS support.
    .NET Framework 2.0 is supported on Windows 98, ME, 2000, XP, Server 2003, Vista, Server 2008, and Server 2008 R2
    Also Windows 7 and 10 will support it since MS.NET 4.0 is backwards compatible with older .NET versions.
    The application code uses lots of .NET 4 features, so can no longer be compiled using .NET 2.0. NextPVR has been pretty good with backward compatibility, but eventually Microsoft (and their current tools, which I require for my day job) makes it difficult to support really old versions of runtimes.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    You can use the -multi command line option to open multiple instances of NextPVR ... http://www.nextpvr.com/nwiki/pmwiki....andLineOptions



    Go into NextPVR Settings Devices and then zip and post the logs using the button at NextPVR Settings --> About. Thanks.

    But, I suspect that Sub will only want to fix a problem if it is present in the current version of NextPVR.
    Well at the time I first installed the WinTV Quad it was during NextPVR v3.9.2. I didn't notice the bug then since I also had a bunch of internal tuner cards and external USB ones hooked up so I mistook the 4 total ATSC and QAM tuners for the Quad tuners being present when there should be 8 total shown.

    I had originally tested NextPVR in Windows 10 but quickly not soon after Windows 10 kept popping up update notices constantly for running it unplugged. I then tried Windows 7 but sadly pop ups still occurred though not was frequent as Windows 10 or as annoying. But I couldn't stand not having the Quick Launch and Clear Desktop icon missing from Vista and XP which made the Windows user interface easier to navigate and do things with ease. Eventually I located a really old version of HD Home Run software that could run in Vista and the update pops don't show up so it actually is quite a good OS for HDHRP and WinTV tuners except the Quad so far.

    I was using v3.9.2 for at least a year and it was only a few days ago I was testing a newer version of NextPVR v4.0.5 that I noticed only 2 tuners were working of the 4. Otherwise I probably would have reported it a year ago and it probably could have been fixed or not in v4.0.5.

    But all other Dual Tuners and Single Tuners Internal and External USB tuners all detect properly. Seeing the Quad tuner came out maybe 2 years ago at most maybe no one has used Vista with it and NextPVR at the same time to stumble upon this bug.

    I just created a new Shortcut with -Multi added after the quotes. It opened up a new instance. I was used to reclicking the icon to launch a new instance so this shortcut will do on Quick Launch. But how would you do a Live 4 Way tuner split screen? Do you have have 4 instances of NextPVR running and then what's next?


    Quote Originally Posted by sub View Post
    Yes, you're correct. It was a Intel HD 4000. It was my old laptop had a Intel HD 4400.

    Our channels are all H.264, so a different kettle of fish from your MPEG2 channels. From memory, I think four of those were HD, and the rest were SD.

    As Graham mentioned above, running multiple copies of NextPVR with "nextpvr.exe -multi"

    Nope.

    The application code uses lots of .NET 4 features, so can no longer be compiled using .NET 2.0. NextPVR has been pretty good with backward compatibility, but eventually Microsoft (and their current tools, which I require for my day job) makes it difficult to support really old versions of runtimes.

    Yes I got about a dozen Z68/Z77 Motherboards so I'm quite familiar with their iGPUs. The i5-2500K had the HD Graphics 3000 which was my first taste of that awesome GPU. The i5-3570K had the HD Graphics 4000 which in comparison was superior and could play Blu-rays on it just fine. I also have SkyLake and Coffee Lake but in all honestly their iGPUs are junk now as they broke Blu-ray playback compatibility and the lack of XP and Vista graphics drivers. I have one Notebook with the Intel HD Graphics 4000. If I were you don't ever sell it. It's got great OS backward compatibility capability.

    You can easily set that laptop of yours up as an XP/Vista/W7/W8/W10 MultiOS boot AOI Laptop test bed. All OS graphics drivers should be downloadable before Intel secretly deletes them off their website. (Hint Hint)

    If you can at least maintain MS.NET 4.00 compatibility then it should work on XP,W7/W8/W10. Pushing MS.NET 4.8 kills off anything but Windows 7 and 10 to work on it.

    If you had no issues compiling in .NET v4.00 before (Not certain which MS.NET the first version of NextPVR started supporting in the beginning) then NextPVR should work for v4.1 and v4.2 recompiled with MS.NET v4.00. I'm not sure how hard it is to recompile for a specific OS or if just using a different MS.NET is what gives a program its OS compatibility to run on a specific Windows version. If so the older MS.NET v4.00 could be used to make NextPVR function on XP, Vista, W7/W8.0/W8.1/W10 (6 Operating Systems) without needing to create a separate installer for each Window version then I would go that route to stay with a AIO Windows installer. If it worked on MS.NET v3.00 it could support Windows 2000 making it 7 Operating Systems supported.

    P.S.
    Sub what is the origin of your Panda bear looking avatar? Was this from a cartoon?
    Last edited by DVRMultiStreamer; 2018-10-28 at 07:52 PM.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVRMultiStreamer View Post
    Sub what is the origin of your Panda bear looking avatar? Was this from a cartoon?
    I'm not sure where it's from - just an avatar picked at random after browsing for an image.

    If you can visit the Settings->Devices screen, then post the logs, I'll see if there was any obvious reason it wasn't seeing the other two tuners. I can't fix old versions though, and it's unlikely XP/Vista support will return in the future. It's just too much effort these days considering so few people using these. Sorry!

  9. #79
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    Actually Vista is still currently supported.

    Martin

  10. #80
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    Good to know - I couldn't remember what the state with Vista was. I have no Vista devices left here.

    DVRMultiStreamer, you should probably retry with the latest release, and let us know what happens.

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