Kodi 21.0 Omega/NextPVR 21.1.0 PVR & Live TV Group Manager

[sub]

This behavior does not involve Kodi. Disabling a channel in the NextPVR web UI by unticking the checkbox next to it in Settings - Channels does not prevent it from reactivating when the channels are updated and saved.

Those tick boxes are not for what you're thinking the for. The tick boxes are purely for selecting a few channels, so you hit the trashcan icon to delete them. They are not enabling/disabling channels.

Similarly, customized channel details and group associations are lost.

I was about to tell you this wasn't true, but I just did test through of these scenarios, and I can see something weird happening for group memberships. I've found the cause of this and fixed it for the next release.

Furthermore, Auto Merge does not appear to be working between different providers

Auto Merge is for merging multiple channels that have the same name on different sources. If it's not merging between different two different IPTV providers, it's likely they have slightly different names. Happy to look close if you're sure that they're the same. This feature was needed for scenarios of users getting channels like BBC1 from both satellite and antenna, and needing to be able to treat them as a single channel with two sources, so that either could be used for recordings. Should work just fine for two different IPTV providers too though.

[bouilliabai]

Sorry, that was incorrect. I was using the tick boxes and bin to delete unwanted channels, only to find them restored on the next saved update. With the advice of only saving the new channels on update, that looks like a viable way to manage channel availability from the back end. However, modifying a channel name in the Channel Details page, then updating channels for its device, even if not saved or only new channels are saved, causes that channel to disappear from the listing. This leads to the question of if in the event channels are removed from an m3u, as happened with a playlist of Roku channels about a month ago, would they similarly be removed from the NextPVR channels listing upon cancelling the update, or would saving be required to maintain sync? Finally, what method would you suggest for identifying new or removed channels or modified details aside from a file compare between old and new playlists?

According to the wiki, Auto Merge "usually" does not involve user interaction to initiate, however there are several examples of channels with the same name from different IPTV devices not merging until done so manually using Advanced Tools. This may actually be preferred behavior. For instance, given the previously discussed issues with a number of Pluto streams, that device has the lowest priority in my current setup. Given the way device priority works, that would be the instance invoked on playback when not merged. That is not what we want either, so ideally, duplicated Pluto channels should be merged. After merging, there doesn't appear to be a way to select a priority, only a single EPG source, with that of the lower numbered channel becoming the default. Therefore merged channels are best managed manually anyway, and it's far easier to spot overlap with unmerged channels using the filter function. And btw, when unmerging, it appears that for the higher numbered channel (regardless of its device priority), the original channel number, source and mapping are not restored.

[sub]

Sorry, that was incorrect. I was using the tick boxes and bin to delete unwanted channels, only to find them restored on the next saved update.

That's working correctly. You can use the checkboxes to delete some channels. If you later reimport/re-add those channels, sure - they'll show up again.

As I've said, I don't recommend anyone blindly pull in all channels. Just import (or use Update Channels) to get the channels you need.

However, modifying a channel name in the Channel Details page, then updating channels for its device, even if not saved or only new channels are saved, causes that channel to disappear from the listing.

I can't say I've tested renaming an IPTV channel. I would expect it'd be left as-is though (with whatever new name you've given it), but it may see the original channel name as a new channel (not realizing it already exists as a different name). Not a big deal though.

This leads to the question of if in the event channels are removed from an m3u, as happened with a playlist of Roku channels about a month ago, would they similarly be removed from the NextPVR channels listing upon cancelling the update, or would saving be required to maintain sync? Finally, what method would you suggest for identifying new or removed channels or modified details aside from a file compare between old and new playlists?

No NextPVR has a more static view of the channels. Its up to you to delete it manually. This is all very IPTV centric, where as most of NextPVR was designed around the much more static list of channels you get from working with a tv tuner. IPTV support in NextPVR was shoehorned in much later, and just has to fit in with the same model already established for other device types. (if it had been a solely IPTV application, some things would have been designed differently)

According to the wiki, Auto Merge "usually" does not involve user interaction to initiate, however there are several examples of channels with the same name from different IPTV devices not merging until done so manually using Advanced Tools.

Automerge doesn't automatically happen. If you want to merge channels with the same name, you have to use that button to request it.

You might be thinking about what happens with TV tuners, where if you go to setup a second on of the same type, it asks if you just want to copy the configuration from the existing tuner? Accepting this is effectively the same end result as setting up the second tuner and doing the auto merge.

[bouilliabai]

As I've said, I don't recommend anyone blindly pull in all channels. Just import (or use Update Channels) to get the channels you need.

Therein lies one of the catches. How to determine which channels are wanted without parsing the list to see what's been added since the last update. I've been doing this with WinMerge, but there has to be an easier way.

I can't say I've tested renaming an IPTV channel. I would expect it'd be left as-is though (with whatever new name you've given it), but it may see the original channel name as a new channel (not realizing it already exists as a different name). Not a big deal though.

The latter case is what occurred earlier. It's not a big deal as long as the client retains name edits performed within it.

This is all very IPTV centric, where as most of NextPVR was designed around the much more static list of channels you get from working with a tv tuner.

If only a tuner were part of the equation. A few years ago when mother nature brought us a new roof, the outfit that installed it put a radiant barrier on the top side of the deck, when it's supposed to go underneath. Were that the case, I could easily remove it where needed for proper reception in the attic. In this neck of the woods an antenna on the roof is just asking for trouble, so we continue to wait for mother nature to bring us another roof, where the same mistake won't be made again. That we can get IPTV channels in the interim is what prompted the usage of NextPVR in the first place.

Automerge doesn't automatically happen.

I misunderstood the wiki then.

Thanks again. You have presented an alternate approach that looks quite workable in managing the list of channels in NextPVR and their details in Kodi. Group association is going to take extra time because of a quirk in their group manager, but hopefully will only have to be done once.

[bouilliabai]

Using the methodology suggested earlier for managing IPTV channels - Update Channels and selecting only new channels then Save to add them, or Cancel to only update any changed playlist URLs - leads to a somewhat tedious, but workable situation in managing an IPTV service suite. For starters, the playlists have to first be compared with previous versions in order to determine what has changed. In the case of the Pluto extra, updating will lead to the channel numbers being indexed, and thus an extra step in the comparison.

A couple of additional notes about the process.

1. As mentioned earlier, channel group membership is reset to the channel defaults on updating, whether saved or canceled. This is fixed for the next release of NextPVR.

2. Update Channels, whether the results are saved or not, *does* delete channels removed from the associated m3u. This is desirable behavior, however, custom groups created in Kodi will not reflect this until the channels are manually deleted from those groups.

3. Channels previously renamed in NextPVR are treated as different channels by the Update Channels function. If their names are unique, they are deleted from NextPVR whether the results are saved or not, yet retained in custom Kodi groups until manually deleted as described above. The channels are offered during the update under the default name, and if selected and saved, are treated as new channels in both NextPVR and Kodi, with any other previous customizations being lost.

4. Channel number changes in an updated m3u are not saved for existing channels, regardless of the save status. In order to reflect such a change, a channel must first be deleted, then added back by a channel update. In doing so, customizations in NextPVR and Kodi are lost, except for custom Kodi group membership, albeit under the old channel number until the channel is removed and reassociated with its custom group(s).

5. It is unclear which other channel attributes are retained in an update, and whether they require the channel to be saved or not. If a reason to check this arises, this reply will be edited accordingly.

[mvallevand]

2. Logically of course that is true.

3. Renamed channels are not different in Kodi, it is uses an numeric OID that is constant. Perhaps Kodi custom groups use something different (not a concern of pvr.nextpvr)

4. Channels numbers can be configured by a users so it wouldn't make sense to change them.

5. You shouldn't be doing so many updates, get a better provider.

Martin

[bouilliabai]

I certainly don't plan on doing updates with this kind of frequency once a good process is in place. Maybe every month or 2 in order to pick up new channels and delete old ones so flipping through them won't lead to errors.

3. While channels renamed in NextPVR aren't different as Kodi sees them, a subsequent Update Channels causes each to be replaced by a new channel with the name and channel attributes per the updated m3u, but under a different OID. Kodi immediately sees it as a new channel in the channel manager, removing the old one in turn. The group manager does not actively synch to this in some respects. Deleted channels that were previously in the Ungrouped column for a particular group are removed, which is what we want. However, deleted channels that are in one or more custom groups remain in those groups until manually removed, at which point they are deleted entirely from the Group manager. This is a quirk in Kodi, and is covered in a thread in that forum. With regard to NextPVR, what would streamline things considerably is to have NextPVR recognize that a channel has been renamed using the spanner in the Channels settings, and on update, keep that channel and its OID, along with any customizations done in NextPVR.

Edit. Of course there would be no need to manage any aspect of channels and groups in Kodi if changes made in NextPVR were retained on channel updates. Ideally, that would be the case so that edits made at the NextPVR server would propagate downstream to all instances of Kodi or any other front end on the same network.

[mvallevand]

If the oid changes after a rescan then it is not an update and either you haven't been following this thread on how to properly do an update or the source m3u file is changing. IPTV is tedious with a dynamic source. Some people use utilities like threadfin to help them, personally I'd rather spend time watching TV.

I can't speak to how Kodi channel or group management works, but honestly if you are managing them in Kodi that is even more reason to keep NextPVR static. I know ksooo recently released a patch for a bug you reported there could be others.

Martin

[bouilliabai]

Right, it's the source m3u changing in the first place that's leading to the need to update. However, when a channel name is changed in NextPVR, even if the channel attributes in the m3u remain exactly the same, this behavior is being observed. Perhaps the OID is not changing, but NextPVR and Kodi are seeing it as a new channel all the same.

Again, I'd prefer to manage groups (and channels for that matter) in NextPVR, but until a patch or new release becomes available that keeps channel edits, especially custom group associations, when updating channels, that's not feasible.

Is the Kodi patch included in a nightly update?

[sub]

Again, I'd prefer to manage groups (and channels for that matter) in NextPVR, but until a patch or new release becomes available that keeps channel edits, especially custom group associations, when updating channels, that's not feasible.

Unfortunately the development build is well beyond the current release version of NextPVR, including version of .NET etc, so a patch is not possible.