YahooXMLTv (requires Go for TV)

[whurlston]

I hear what you are saying and don't completely disagree with you. I'm not advocating any type of illegal activity but until this new pay service popped up nobody really cared to talk about "legalities" of the EPG data tools being developed. What I don't like about this new pay service is that the pricing won't be decided until the membership demographics are collected. I'd be a lot more inclined to sign up if a flat rate of $25 to $40 a year was set from the very beginning. Perhaps I am just a very untrusting person but I don't like the dangling carrot of "we *may* reduce the price as membership increases". $60 a year is too much in my opinion, and there is a good chance that it will not be reduced from that. My point is, and maybe completely wrong, that people that are already happy with the free tools will likely not pony up the $15 "test" fee. I guess I'll just hang around and see ...

The service is non profit which means that the membership costs will most likely go straight to the service fees. The more people that sign up, the lower those membership fees will be. The need to pay TMS $12,000/month. If 1000 people sign up, thats $12/mo each. If 12,000 sign up, that's $1/month each. These figures are for demonstrative purposes since I'm not privy to the details but that's the way it will work. Since I plan on paying the membership dues, it's pretty silly of me to continue work on something that will keep people from signing up, thereby increasing my membership costs. The quicker people sign up, the quicker the cost drops. If people don't sign up, the price will not drop. It's as simple as that. Besides, they have announced a 7 day free trial... what's to lose by trying it?

[smajor]

Since I plan on paying the membership dues, it's pretty silly of me to continue work on something that will keep people from signing up, thereby increasing my membership costs.

Will you be releasing a "final" version of this with fixes/features mentioned in previous posts, or is the version from 7/17/07 "it"?

[WerewolfTA]

Update 2: Time seems to have answered my question. I did have to add another line to updateegp.bat to copy the files from app data to local settings. It's always a day behind when it's updated and when the exe sees the updated info, but I can live with that (I think).

Update: This appears to be working. I had to wipe out the db, but set it back up, and was able to watch and record. TV guide is populated. So, now just wondering about these folders.

Hello. I've been messing with this all morning. I've read through the entire topic. I'm sorry to hear that support for this is ending (or has ended). I wonder, though, if somebody could maybe offer some direction for me.

I downloaded go for tv. looks to be v0.2.55. Set it up. Picked my channels. Didn't see any duplicates. It claims to have download the listings ok. I found lineups.dat and listings.1.dat under this directory:
c:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Yahoo!\Go\TV\library\tv. They had sizes of 12KB & 72KB, respectively, although I don't know what's in them because I couldn't get any info to show up in sqliteadmin.

Initially, I couldn't get yahooxmltv.exe to find any channels. I noticed in post 3 that this should have been under Local Settings instead of Application Data, so I copied the Yahoo! folder under there and reran. Eureka! The log shows all is well and the xml file is populated. I haven't switched over to the xml file in config.exe yet, but I wanted to ask this.

Will I need to create a script that keeps the App Data and Local Settings folders sync'd, or would that only be necessary if I made changes to my TV lineup? Basically, I'm wondering if when I run yahooxmltv.exe, will the new program lineups get placed in the correct folder by yahooxmltv, or does it call one of the yahoo programs, which would likely update the info under App Data instead of Local Settings. Does that make sense? Thanks in advance for any insight into how this works.

[PVRity]

If you download and use the free Yahoo software, but somehow, convert, export, or scrape the data from that software and use it elsewhere, even for personal use, you are violating copyright law.
.....
Go ahead and do what you wish. But everyone should know when they're speeding through a school zone, claiming their dog as a dependent for their taxes, using purple gas in their personal car, or downloading and consuming copyrighted material, they're breaking the law.

I totally disagree that using downloaded data is a clear violation of copyright law equivalent to speeding, using purple gas or claiming your dog as a dependent. That statement is flat wrong.

TV schedule data is almost certainly not protectable in the U.S. as copyrighted material. No court has really looked at T.V schedules directly, but the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that basic facts, like names and addresses are not protectable copyrightable material. FEIST PUBLICATIONS, INC. v. RURAL TELEPHONE SERVICE CO. You can copy your local phone book without violating copyright. Prices of items have been found to be not protectable by copyright. Baseball statistics are not protectable. Product numbers, and some other types of schedules have all been found to be nothing more than facts, which lack the requisite "originality" for copyright protection no matter how much effort someone has put into assembling those facts.

So if it isn't protected by copyright (in the U.S. at least), how does TMS protect their data. They do it by contract ("terms of service"). I've looked at the terms for several guide services and I don't see any clear prohibition against personal use of TV schedule data. Certainly, it's not a criminal offense like the other cases alleged to be equivalent. It's not even civil copyright infringement. At most it would be a violation of the terms under which the data is provided.

[pastro]

I totally disagree that using downloaded data is a clear violation of copyright law equivalent to speeding, using purple gas or claiming your dog as a dependent. That statement is flat wrong...

I agree with you that it is likely not copyright infringement, but some of the tools pull the data from Yahoo's server directly. That could be construed as hacking into their system which there have been cases where significant punitive damages were assessed.

[PVRity]

I agree with you that it is likely not copyright infringement, but some of the tools pull the data from Yahoo's server directly. That could be construed as hacking into their system which there have been cases where significant punitive damages were assessed.

I don't see this as hacking into a protected server. It's not like hacking in with a fake password/ID as you would need to do to get unauthorized access to TiVo's data. If anyone was really worried about that, though, they could use the official software and convert the data after d/l.

[smajor]

I don't see this as hacking into a protected server. It's not like hacking in with a fake password/ID as you would need to do to get unauthorized access to TiVo's data. If anyone was really worried about that, though, they could use the official software and convert the data after d/l.

...and, that might be what some coder should do. Go for TV seems to download its guide data to your hard drive. If you had something that read that data and read it later, that might be the ticket. This assumes that Go for TV doesn't need to be launched to get its guide data and that such data is downloaded in the background. Still, an interesting theory and might be worth a post elsewhere because that's not how this grabber works.

[zehd]

It's not even civil copyright infringement. At most it would be a violation of the terms under which the data is provided.

Thanks for your considered opinion. I appreciate the constructive debate.

You may have noticed that I have taken some time to write my opinions and translate what I know of the subject. However it seems I have made an error.

Indeed the actual data, episode titles and descriptions, etc, cannot be copyrighted, (although some countries like Australia have tried)

It is the technical means of downloading that data with proprietary software into a proprietary database that is copyrighted and protected under the software license and terms of service. The software is designed to use and solely use that downloaded data.

Even hacking Windows to make it do something that was not designed by Microsoft is considered a breach of the their Terms of Service.

Now, until the SchedulesDirect was offered, I was certainly inclined to laugh in the face of the agreement, because quite honestly, I want an EPG so I can use my PVR. I would do whatever I could to fight for my PVR... Indeed it was a case of 'convenient' justification.

Now that there is a proper and legitimate service available, it is my opinion that one should move to that service, rather than continue with the illegitimate path. Users have the right to do whatever they want, but they may have to find their own alternatives.

As a software designer, I would be undermining the rights and efforts of other developers if I continued to help some people get a service through indirect channels. There are some developers that agree and some that don't. Ultimately, the only way for you to know that you will get updates and support for software is for you to write it yourself (I did not mean for that to sound so rough)

To paraphrase Whurlston, 'helping people NOT subscribe keeps the price UP. Helping people avoid paying for the subscription costs me money...'

(I'm at work and kinda flew through this post, so I apologize if my words were not chosen carefully enough...)

[zehd]

...and, that might be what some coder should do. Go for TV seems to download its guide data to your hard drive. If you had something that read that data and read it later, that might be the ticket. This assumes that Go for TV doesn't need to be launched to get its guide data and that such data is downloaded in the background. Still, an interesting theory and might be worth a post elsewhere because that's not how this grabber works.

That is what coders do. That's how this one works too. They grab and convert the data that is already downloaded in the respective software's database... It is that mechanism that is the breach

[pastro]

I don't see this as hacking into a protected server. It's not like hacking in with a fake password/ID as you would need to do to get unauthorized access to TiVo's data. If anyone was really worried about that, though, they could use the official software and convert the data after d/l.

I think by definition it is protected. It has a user name and password and you have no authorization from Yahoo to use it.
At any rate, I'm going to use the subscription service for the first three months. Hopefully after a couple of months we will know where we stand and can make a decision whether to move ahead on writing our own tools.