Does NextPVR support DRM?

[HarryH3]

I just have to ask since I went through the hassle of buying two Silicon Dust cable devices and upgrading to v5 only to find out that the "Premium" channels are verboten.

I do NOT want to record them, just be able to view them. If Microsoft could do it with Media Center, it's obviously not totally illegal, so I'm trying to understand the rationale of not even allowing the viewing of such channels. I have investigated things and apparently NextPVR could allow viewing and disallow recording, so if recording is the problem because of DRM that is not an issue.  Besides, if the CableCARD enables the channel (regardless of the DRM setting), then the user has the right to view the station in question because the cable company has enabled it.  Therefore NextPVR would not be out of line to at least allow the viewing of the channel and disallowing recording due to DRM.

Why is it that NextPVR cannot at least allow viewing of these DRM channels? Silicon Dust allows it through their Home Run software (so it is possible) but their interface and station directory leaves a LOT to be desired.

I'm not trying to cause a fight here, I am just trying to understand what the thought process was that emasculated NextPVR (and every other open source solution available).  Because there has to be a reason that I have yet to find using Google/Bing/etc. for not supporting such channels.

As with most things in life, if you want the truth then follow the money.  Microsoft was able to do it by spending hundreds of thousands of dollars over the years for Cable Labs to certify that their recordings were encrypted so that they could NOT be used anywhere other than on the device that recorded them.  The PlayReady program managed the encryption.  There is a huge initial payment for the first year certification and then there are very substantial payments required each year to maintain certification.  That cost probably has a lot to do with why Microsoft dropped Media Center...  Too much cost (plus support costs) and not enough return to justify maintaining it. 

Sounds like Silicon Dust is coughing up the cash for their software to be certified.

NPVR "records" data to a hard drive even in LiveTV so that you can pause, rewind, etc.  Thus the Cable Card and the channel tag prevents it.

[HarryH3]

I've been reading the comments about decrypting the DRM signal either in the SiliconDust device or NPVR.  In my opinion, it shouldn't be on either of those companies to provide a way to decrypt those channels, but rather the cable company.  We (I) purchase a product from said cable company and pay a rental fee on a device from said cable company to access that product.  The cable card its may not be able to decrypt the signal, but there is a "tuner" that plugs into the SiliconDust device that should be able to decrypt those channels.  To be honest, I 'm not really sure WHY I have to have this tuner, because it doesn't provide benefit that I can detect, but it is there.  This particular device itself may not be able to decrypt, but the CC should be able to provide a similar device that can decrypt.

The answer is quite simple, the TV and movie industry do NOT want you to be able to make a recording of their premium content and then view it, share it or use it in any way after it has aired.  They lose truckloads of money when a new movie gets copied and placed on the internet for everyone to watch for free.  They don't give a rats a$$ about how we feel about it. 

[pcostanza]

Fun fact of no consequence, in early 2006, Microsoft sent me a brand new computer and a very crude OCUR device to test the first cable card tuner in Windows.  I tested with 18 other people across the country for 2 years and watched how it improved with each design.  The local Cox bosses even asked to come see what the fuss was all about at my house so they could ask questions and learn about it.  Most thought it would never work.  It often didn't.  Pairing the cards when you can only work with 1 or 2 local cable folks was not easy.  The first device was literally an aluminum base with no top and sides to contain the board.  We couldn't keep that one.
The final product (I was given 2) is still in a closest somewhere but maybe will make it to the Smithsonian. It was very similar to ATI's product. Later I went to Ceton which I paid for and shouldn't have. It was full of bugs and was a huge PITA.  Nothing compares to Silicon's units.

[pcostanza]

Here's the closest thing to what the final test product looked like.

[rosede]

I've been reading the comments about decrypting the DRM signal either in the SiliconDust device or NPVR.  In my opinion, it shouldn't be on either of those companies to provide a way to decrypt those channels, but rather the cable company.  We (I) purchase a product from said cable company and pay a rental fee on a device from said cable company to access that product.  The cable card its may not be able to decrypt the signal, but there is a "tuner" that plugs into the SiliconDust device that should be able to decrypt those channels.  To be honest, I 'm not really sure WHY I have to have this tuner, because it doesn't provide benefit that I can detect, but it is there.  This particular device itself may not be able to decrypt, but the CC should be able to provide a similar device that can decrypt.

The answer is quite simple, the TV and movie industry do NOT want you to be able to make a recording of their premium content and then view it, share it or use it in any way after it has aired.  They lose truckloads of money when a new movie gets copied and placed on the internet for everyone to watch for free.  They don't give a rats a$$ about how we feel about it. 

Harry,

I'm not talking about premium channels, I'm talking about the regular content that I subscribe to.   I started this thread because I woke up one morning and found that Cox Cable changed all of the standard channels to DRM.  I don't know what all of this talk about Microsoft is, and how they play into all of this, but I don't really care either.  I subscribe to pretty much a basic set of channels.  These channels should not be encrypted.  I pay for a product and I pay for a device, cable card, to be able to view those channels.  I should be able to use equipment that I purchased (as long it's a legal and approve product) to view those channels.  Maybe I can't get the premium channels using this equipment, but I don't really care either. 

If I can't watch and record standard cable channels, then I will drop Cox and "Cut-the-cord".  There are a lot of choices out there.  I may not be happy with the final solution, but I'll do what I need to do.

Daryl

[rosede]

The best solution for premium live TV seems to be stream pass through so that the chain is secure and Widevine on Windows and Android etc do the decryption and playback.  Kodi seems to be able to handle Netflix, Hulu, Disney and Peacock etc this way.  Finding a provider that provides this is the challenge.


Martin

Martin,

I have absolutely no idea what you're talk about here.  There are no native add-ons in Kodi for Netflx, Hulu, Disney, Peacock etc...  The only way a person can watch any of them in Kodi is via a web browser. It would be nice if a person could. I have a couple of TV's that I would love to watch Netflix on, but can't.

Daryl

[HarryH3]

Harry,

I'm not talking about premium channels, I'm talking about the regular content that I subscribe to.   I started this thread because I woke up one morning and found that Cox Cable changed all of the standard channels to DRM.  I don't know what all of this talk about Microsoft is, and how they play into all of this, but I don't really care either.  I subscribe to pretty much a basic set of channels.  These channels should not be encrypted.  I pay for a product and I pay for a device, cable card, to be able to view those channels.  I should be able to use equipment that I purchased (as long it's a legal and approve product) to view those channels.  Maybe I can't get the premium channels using this equipment, but I don't really care either. 

If I can't watch and record standard cable channels, then I will drop Cox and "Cut-the-cord".  There are a lot of choices out there.  I may not be happy with the final solution, but I'll do what I need to do.

Daryl

Daryl, the cable card doesn't care (or even know!) if it's really a premium channel or not.  If the channel is tagged as DRM, you're screwed.  The card will honor the tag and block you from seeing it in NPVR (and most other programs).  The only way that NPVR could fix that is with a dump truck full of cash, to get (and maintain) Cable Labs certification.  However, I saw in another thread that Cox realizes that marking everything with DRM created a problem for them and that they are rolling back that change.  So perhaps you'll soon get access again. 

It's just the old Golden Rule in action.  Those that have the gold, make the rules. 

[mvallevand]

I might 100% understand the role WideVine plays but addons definitely can do DRM, there might not be addons for all of them at this point but Netflix seems quite popular.

Martin

[jbhall56]

AFAIK there is no Kodi app for the the HDHomerun that plays DRM.

Martin

I tried the HD HomeRun app under Kodi and it also does not play the DRM channels.

Which is odd in that Silicon Dust's native Windows/iOS/Android/etc. apps will play ALL channels, then why would their Kodi addon NOT also play the DRM protected channels?

Besides that, it was my understanding that the CableCARD was the channel decrypter and gatekeeper, not NextPVR or any other similar software.
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[mvallevand]

Right, Kodi PVR addons don't provide a protected chain, the Silicon Dust apps do, assume the device supports.

I also don't think SD apps will play ALL channels, some channels like PPV and VOD are marked copy never.

Martin