acceptable fps for MVP

HtV · 2007-04-20, 05:47 AM

zehd Wrote:hmmm

He didn't use caps, and he called ZProcess tedius....

Well let's say it wasn't the most thorough test of GBPVR I've seen. Smile

SuMo · 2007-04-20, 06:02 PM

zehd Wrote:I hear that PAL can display pink too. I've always wondered when people talk about other people blushing on television, and yet we can't see it. Can PAL users see people blushing?

Sure, no problem

That's why we (in PAL-land) say that the lettters NTSC stand for "Never The Same Color".
BRB with some test results using your clips........

SuMo · 2007-04-20, 06:53 PM

zehd Wrote:If you are PAL, MVP in PAL mode, PAL TV, do NTSC AVIs transcode properly in 23.97 or 29.97 fps?

Zehd, I've tried your sample clips and this is what I found

If your TV doesn't switch, you've got a problem (as I do)
There is NO transcoding being done when the file is an MPG,
the MVP plays it "as is" so 23.97 and 29.97 aren't watchable.
The 25fps clips play fine but the AR are "a bit odd" so
about the aspect ratio's; If the TV is set to handle the image size (like zoom/panoramic/full etc) all the sample clips are shifted up, so a big black bar on the bottom, no bars at the sides or the top, and not in correct AR, all are a bit squashed.
If the TV is set to "normal" AR's are maintained but the picture is still shifted towards the top of the screen. A small bar at the top, left and right, a slightly bigger black bar at the bottom.
To be clear, I'm using a 16:9 conventional (not plasma or LCD) TV set.

I hope this is the info you wanted, if not let me know.

zehd · 2007-04-20, 10:02 PM

SuMo Wrote:If your TV doesn't switch, you've got a problem (as I do)
There is NO transcoding being done when the file is an MPG,
the MVP plays it "as is" so 23.97 and 29.97 aren't watchable.

Yeah, I pre - transcoded the files to simulate the output of a on the fly transcode.

Quote:The 25fps clips play fine but the AR are "a bit odd" so
about the aspect ratio's; If the TV is set to handle the image size (like zoom/panoramic/full etc) all the sample clips are shifted up, so a big black bar on the bottom, no bars at the sides or the top, and not in correct AR, all are a bit squashed.

For this test, I wasn't worried about whether the picture was moved or squashed. That's for something else. Just worried about sync with different framerates...

Quote:If the TV is set to "normal" AR's are maintained but the picture is still shifted towards the top of the screen. A small bar at the top, left and right, a slightly bigger black bar at the bottom.

How much? 1 or 2% shift or 20-50 % shift...

Quote:To be clear, I'm using a 16:9 conventional (not plasma or LCD) TV set.

The test files were assuming that you were using a 4x3 television, PAL. I would imagine the aspect ratio looked funny...

Any chance you have an old 4x3 PAL TV you could use?

Just so you know, I have realized that I have some math homework to do with PAL auto aspect ratios. So for the moment, there will be some padding on the top and bottom, and the picture will be squished. Funny how no PAL ZProcess users have complained about this point in ZProcess. I know that one can adjust the squash within a profile, but I had no idea that the NTSC and PAL picture tubes were the same aspect, and pixels were different...

Anyway, in NTSC land, I can view any framerate as long as the vertical is 240 or 480.

It would seem that in PAL land you need to have the transcode, swung over to 25. I'll be adding a force framerate/Televsion standard switch to ZProcess...

SuMo · 2007-04-21, 06:28 PM

zehd Wrote:For this test, I wasn't worried about whether the picture was moved or squashed. That's for something else. Just worried about sync with different framerates...

The MVP plays both (PAL and NTSC) nativly, even when it's set to PAL it plays 23.97 and 29.97 exactly as they are, resulting in a couple of bad/blocky video frames every second/second and a half, the sound plays fine and for as far as I could see stayed in sync.

Quote:How much? 1 or 2% shift or 20-50 % shift...

Let say about 15% up

Quote:Any chance you have an old 4x3 PAL TV you could use?

No sorry.........

Quote:Anyway, in NTSC land, I can view any framerate as long as the vertical is 240 or 480.

So there is an positive side to NTSC! :p

Quote:It would seem that in PAL land you need to have the transcode, swung over to 25. I'll be adding a force framerate/Televsion standard switch to ZProcess...

Yep, you will see it in the transcoded file though, it looks like a slight hiccup every second but hardly noticable if you don't know it's there but very annoying when you do know.

zehd · 2007-04-21, 07:56 PM

OK guys. I have some new clips for you to look at. I'm hoping that you will test with MVP in PAL mode, TV in PAL mode

I have included 4x3 and 16x9 mpgs, all swung over to 25 fps. I hope that these will all display well on either 4x3 or 16x9 PAL TVs. Please let me know....

on the FTP, I also have ZProcess 1004 which has all the 25 fps override and PAL aspect ratio math worked out.

One little thing is: I have several wide screen AVIs that aren't perfectly 16:9. (A 640 wide should be 360 high, have plenty that are 352) I have hardcoded a fudge where the 352 is rounded up to 360. That way there aren't fine horizontal pads at the top or bottom. My opinion that they are negligible. If you think the picture is still a little tall, you can adjust ZProcess to shrink it down a bit...

SuMo · 2007-04-22, 10:17 AM

Zehd, the 25fps clips play as expected (including the slight hiccup every second).
Moving over to the zprocess support thread.

SuMo · 2007-04-22, 10:28 AM

:o .... and back again since the zprocess support thread is closed......

perhaps I (or someone else) already asked this but...... any way zprocess can hardcode a srt sub file? and while we're at it, also determine where we want it in the picture ?
Just to make some things clear, I transcode from whatever to divx/xvid avi's, so this can be from divx with seperate srt into an new padded divx with hardcoded subs

zehd · 2007-04-22, 07:25 PM

SuMo Wrote:Zehd, the 25fps clips play as expected (including the slight hiccup every second).
Moving over to the zprocess support thread.

Shirley, you could start another thread in the ZProcess sub-forum

zehd · 2007-04-22, 07:27 PM

SuMo Wrote::o .... and back again since the zprocess support thread is closed......

perhaps I (or someone else) already asked this but...... any way zprocess can hardcode a srt sub file? and while we're at it, also determine where we want it in the picture ?

It already does that. In fact when using ZProcess, you can't keep them separate...

subtitle positioning is already in ZProcess....

Quote:Just to make some things clear, I transcode from whatever to divx/xvid avi's, so this can be from divx with seperate srt into an new padded divx with hardcoded subs

Yep. Does that. If you have trouble meet me in ZProcess forum