Community skin project

[cginzel]

it's just your "friendly" user again...

I have to say at first i wasn't sold on Old Dog's community skin, but his last post has sold me on his idea. I like the way hey is trying to turn this into a project that can be managed, if you will. I think you are all well intentioned, but i think being geographically and maybe ideologically separated makes things somewhat challenging to say the least. Again, this is only my opinion, but i think if you put some parts together that you agree on, the simple parts, and maybe Mix Man has started some of this, then roll these parts together into the community skin and then kick it around and evolve it, i think you all will more likely produce the best that can be. the key is to start with something and grow it in a project manner. you can see many good examples of this management style in many open source projects.

I know there is the inclination to "solve all the worlds problems" before starting sometimes because you want to do it "right"... but that is usually very hard to do...

anyway... i appreciate you guys taking this task on... i for one wish you the best of luck on producing some excellent and *easy to install* eye candy! :p

[MixMan]

(Edit: added quote)




What makes this project difficult is not the task at hand but rather the participants in the effort. It is my intention here to develop a plan that will allow the participants to begin working together and to provide the opportunity for them to workout their differences in a contructive manner. That's all folks!

All of us need to drop our commitment to the past and establish a commitment to this project.

Goals and background

Accept Blue as the standard.

We will produce two sets of xml files for the standard. Files in the first set are devoid of all graphical elements, the second set of files include graphical elements appropriate to Blue. Files in the first set are proper subsets of files in the second set.

When a developer creates a new plug-in they will create both xml files. The first file defines the information layout, the second simply adds graphics.

The layout file allows the developer to focus on the organization and placement of the plug-in output, i.e. blocks of information, using the default text styles defined in BaseSkin.xml. When satisfied with the layout, the developer will add the graphics for Blue. The layout file will also be useful to the skinner as a starting point for their graphics design.

The Plan

Beginning with the core features, we will create new xml files for Blue. We will begin each feature by polling the community to identify the best existing implementation of the feature. We will use that implementation as a starting point. Note that what we are most concerned with in our poll is the text presentation; the organization, placement, and fonts.

By the time we have finished the core features, we will probably have a good definition of the BaseSkin.xml, especially text styles.

After completing the core features, we will release the community skin for review. We need to develop a plan to deal with this review period.

The next phase of the project focuses on plug-in features. We will select each plug-in one at a time by polling the community. Once we have selected a plug-in, we will poll for the best implementation. We will create the two xml files for each plug-in.

Note that as we reach a consensus, we will be able to split-up into teams and address plug-ins in parallel. During the first phase we should work as a single, unruly, mob; we need to workout our differences and we must reach a consensus.

As long as we think of what "I" can do instead of what "we" can do, we will get nowhere.

I think most of this has been done in the BaseSkin. It is a very well defined skin and all elements in the XMLs are very well aligned and uses the baseskin.xml for changing textstyles in the rest of the sub menus. (it might save some time for the project)
I can donate the BaseSkin to Sub and the community if he wants to use it, free to change or remove/add whatever you think is needed.
I will also give up the name "BaseSkin" if Sub or the "community" wants to use it. I will then use another name for my XML work.

[Old Dog]

I think most of this has been done in the BaseSkin. It is a very well defined skin and all elements in the XMLs are very well aligned and uses the baseskin.xml for changing textstyles in the rest of the sub menus. (it might save some time for the project)
I can donate the BaseSkin to Sub and the community if he wants to use it, free to change or remove/add whatever you think is needed.
I will also give up the name "BaseSkin" if Sub or the "community" wants to use it. I will then use another name for my XML work.

I'm sure every skinner would be willing to donate their work as the community standard. We need a mechanism that avoids this generosity and places responsibility with the community to select the initial code base.

All jesting aside, I think it best if all of us dropped our commitment to the past and focused on working together.

Regards,
Old Dog
(edited)

[MixMan]

I'm sure every skinner would be willing to donate their work as the community standard. We need a mechanism that avoids this generosity and places responsibility with the community to select the initial code base.

All jesting aside, I think it best if all of us dropped our commitment to the past and focused on working together.

Regards,
Old Dog
(edited)

I didn't say accept my xmls as a standard. Just use them as a base, they are at least fully skinned an working.
So where is the community, besides you and Fatman_do ?

[Fatman_do]

I'm sure every skinner would be willing to donate their work as the community standard. We need a mechanism that avoids this generosity and places responsibility with the community to select the initial code base.

All jesting aside, I think it best if all of us dropped our commitment to the past and focused on working together.

Regards,
Old Dog
(edited)

Since this whole topic started, I have put everything "My Skin" related on hold and was fully prepared to abandon anything done in the past to move into the future.

After some time reviewing everything, I was prepared to outline more of a process to move foward. Ignoring any method over another (xml, StaticGraphic, Multiple Image) since I saw these elements as more narrowly focused. Sub hinted there is a new process in the works that may address those issues which may render that debate obsolete.

Until sub posts more info on this, I think that part of the process should be put on hold.

I just am not sure now where the focus needs to be. There appears two be two or three sets of "needs" that can be related to the others, but not dependant on the others.

One is a method to get plugins integrated into skins faster. Another is a community skin. A third is a standard for image based skins.

Does the community skin help identify the others? I think it could help.

Old Dog,
I have re-read posts of you somewhat downplaying "Image Based" as a requirement, then also stating the desire to not use xml color elements for screen displays. Despite philisophical differences of how to implement "Static" screen elements, are you in agreement on dynamic elements? In essence, do you agree with a basic set of images for popup backgrounds, selectors, and list backgrounds as a minimum?

[Old Dog]

One is a method to get plugins integrated into skins faster. Another is a community skin. A third is a standard for image based skins.

Does the community skin help identify the others? I think it could help.

I agree.

Old Dog,
I have re-read posts of you somewhat downplaying "Image Based" as a requirement, then also stating the desire to not use xml color elements for screen displays. Despite philisophical differences of how to implement "Static" screen elements, are you in agreement on dynamic elements? In essence, do you agree with a basic set of images for popup backgrounds, selectors, and list backgrounds as a minimum?

I did not mean to give the impression that I was opposed to image based skins. It was simply that image based was not part Reboot's original post. Some of our posts implied they addressed Reboot's original request yet actually were far from the mark.

I am all in favor of image based skins, it promotes cohesion.

Best Regards,
Old Dog

[Fatman_do]

I agree.
I did not mean to give the impression that I was opposed to image based skins. It was simply that image based was not part Reboot's original post. Some of our posts implied they addressed Reboot's original request yet actually were far from the mark. I am all in favor of image based skins, it promotes cohesion.

Best Regards,
Old Dog

Thanks for the clarification. Reboots concerns didn't outline any specific demands on how to do it (why should it?), which is why there are many different approaches being considered. It is a natural part of any process when there is more than one involved.

As far as what skin to use as the starting point (not necessarily as the model to follow), I have no preference or opinion. 'Blue' can be used since it is the only skin that has 100% completion, but MCE2 or BaseSkin can be used as well. If Tipstir says "why reinvent the wheel, use one of mine", I am fine with that as well.

What we start with doesn't matter to me. The final product will look nothing like the original anyway. (xml or image wise)

Cheers.

[Fatman_do]

My nomination for what the community skin should be requires the approval of the skin creator.

I nominate a 4:3 version of Sassari with changes made to adopt to a "community standard".

Dottore, do you have any objections?

Reasons for nomination.
1. Newest skin on the block
2. Incomplete
3. Strong interest in a 4:3 version.
4. Not from one of the "Gang of 3"'

[daphatty]

My nomination for what the community skin should be requires the approval of the skin creator.

I nominate a 4:3 version of Sassari with changes made to adopt to a "community standard".

Dottore, do you have any objections?

Reasons for nomination.
1. Newest skin on the block
2. Incomplete
3. Strong interest in a 4:3 version.
4. Not from one of the "Gang of 3"'

**DaPhatty Chimes In**

I nominate Contour as the 4:3 standard and Sassari as the 16:9 standard.

[Fatman_do]

I don't like the batch files and environmental variables either. I have a very hard time getting some of the base skin theme packs to install correctly. I think that all of the stuff that is done in those today could be done in Appearance Manager or some other plug-in. I think it would also be good to work with sub to see if more things can be skinned on the fly without the need to shut down and restart gbpvr. It would make the experience much more interactive and user friendly.

Jeff

Jeff, do you know of a way to get a NSIS installer to read a xml file tag (ie. <ActiveSkin>Blue</ActiveSkin> ) and use that?

(Edit: I think I may have found an answer here, have to look into it. http://nsis.sourceforge.net/XML_plug-in)