Community Skin 3.0 Open development thread.

[McBainUK]

Is it right that the task image is the task.png that sits in the \skin\blue\MyPlugin folder and is displayed in the initial main menu as I scroll to MyPlugin in the menu?

Correct.

What handling of task images is done by individual plugins?

The image is drawn by the main menu but each plugin has a getTaskImage method which returns to GB-PVR an image object to display. All plugins tend to simply look for a task.png/task.jpg in their skin folder and return that.

[McBainUK]

Any of the twenty skins/themes could be altered to...using the skinplugin program to alter the content of the skin xml files. No copying of png files would be required.

I think your suggestions are well thought out but I'm having trouble understanding the overal goal here. Is it this?

I could create twenty skins/themes.

By this do you mean 20 sets of XML files, with each set having a XML file for every screen/plugin?

[Graham]

All plugins tend to simply look for a task.png/task.jpg in their skin folder and return that.

We only have about two or three new 1.0 plugins so it may not be too late to modify stuff. The legacy plugins will stay as they are -- finding their task images in the \skin\Plugin folder.

I don't have strong views about any of this. I like that the new blue skin is straightforward and I can understand what it is doing. I like what the Community skin and SkinPlugin did. I would like to see a re-implementation of the fuctionality of the SkinPlugin with an absolute minimum of complexity so that I can see how stuff works and fiddle with skins if I want to.

Thanks

Graham

[McBainUK]

re-implementation of the fuctionality of the SkinPlugin with an absolute minimum of complexity

I'm all for that Although I think the legacy plugins still need to be catered for.

[Graham]

I'm having trouble understanding the overal goal here.

I suspect that you have hit on one of the things that I haven't thought through. I have been thinking about how to keep stuff simple and not about how stuff would actually work.

I can see why it might be not good to have twenty skins with each skin having thirty or more sub-folders to cater for all the plugins.

Watch this space.

Thanks

Graham

Edit: I know that this debate happened at the start of the Community skin project and I am not try to re-invent the wheel. I just hope that the the wheel can have as few spokes as possible.

[McBainUK]

How the Community Skin and SkinPlugin works (and why it does things this way)
- it doesnt have as many spokes as you think

I can see why it might be not good to have twenty skins with each skin having thirty or more sub-folders to cater for all the plugins.

This was the reason behind the CommunitySkin (and Mixman's and Old Dog's skin systems). XMLs need to be kept up to date when versions of plugins and GB-PVR itself are created.

What we did was to have the XML files define the layout of each screen and then move the apperance out into the baseskin and a set of common images. You can see the list here. We also did the same for textstyles as there is no point being able to change, for example, a button to white if the text stays the default white.

Once all the XMLs where made I worked on the SkinPlugin which allowed you to swap and change images and baseskin.xmls (which define fonts and colours). Later themes where added (pre-defined sets of images which look nice and work well together). Later still SkinMods where added which allow you to swap out certain screen's XMLS - for example the main menu and TV Guide.

The goal of this was to reduce XML maintaince and allow users to change the look of GB-PVR with knowing about XMLs and baseskins and whatnot. The proof of this is that since Fatmand_do, MixMan, myself and serveral others created the original XMLs they havnt been touched apart from new and updated plugins.

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In the future one thing I would like is for the SkinPlugin to be able to save themes and to have some killer images to work with. Some hi-res/WS ones would be nice.
Fatman_do and myself have also talked about about having an army of skinners to maintain XMLs (for a quick turnaround on new and updated plugins & GBPVR screens) and to create (borrow) themes and images to expand the skin.

Mark

ps. I'm not saying "this is the best and only way" I just wanted to explain how it works and why. This is another thing we have discussed - at the moment its quite hidden and we want it to be more of the community's. The guidelines and lists linked to above goes some way to help achive that.

[Jeff]

Correct.


The image is drawn by the main menu but each plugin has a getTaskImage method which returns to GB-PVR an image object to display. All plugins tend to simply look for a task.png/task.jpg in their skin folder and return that.

The weather plug-in also has an option to return the current forecast icon as its task icon. If this option is checked, each time GBPVR asks the weather plug-in to return its task icon it will, potentially, return a different image.

Jeff

[Graham]

- it doesnt have as many spokes as you think

Thank you.

I had been groping around the Community skin folders and the picture that I had in my mind was a close match for the picture in your post. There is hope for me yet.

Our minds have different ideas about what is complex which is why you are the developer and I am merely a spectator.

I don't really care how complicated stuff is. I care about how complicated it looks. Watching TV on a computer is jolly complicated. Using GBPVR makes it easy (mostly).

You could probably shut me up by storing all of the content of the \Community\SkinPlugin folder as a sub-folder in \Plugins\SkinPlugin folder. Plus, the SkinPlugin might be able to replace the Community\baseskin.xml (and other edits) directly without the need for visible file copying. Out of sight is out of mind.

When I decide to fiddle about changing a skin, I could try the SkinPlugin. If that doesn't do what I want, I could go to the Community skin folder and edit the xml file directly. I just need to remember which manual edits will be lost if I make further changes using the SkinPlugin.

Thanks for your patience

Graham

P.S. I had assumed that because the new skins looked easier then it would be possible to come up with an easier way to do Community Skin/SkinPlugin stuff. A lot of time, effort and intellect when into the Community Skin/SkinPlugin stuff and the end result does a good job. Spending another million keystokes looking for ways to reduce the number of spokes in the wheel is umlikely to achieve any improvement. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[McBainUK]

I care about how complicated it looks.....Plus, the SkinPlugin might be able to replace the Community\baseskin.xml (and other edits) directly without the need for visible file copying. Out of sight is out of mind.

I agree and want to look into in-place-editing of things like the number of rows in the TV guide for example (if this is possible...).

Loosing the ugly dos box and repleacing it with a please wait... windows form will be a good way to go. Don't have to see all the copy/delete messages then.

\Community\SkinPlugin folder as a sub-folder in \Plugins\SkinPlugin folder.

This is already planned for V3.0

I am merely a spectator.

If you want to get invloved and think your manual edits deserve a place in the CSkin installer than let us know - things always seem to need tweaking.

[Fatman_do]

Graham, your input is greatly appreciated in these discussions because it is a fresh set of eyes looking at it from the outside.

I always will add user skin mods or requests into the Community skin distribution.

One of the reasons for the current skinmods selection was due to user requets.

I have to spend some time to re-read your posts to better grasp where you are coming from and formulate answers.

I can see some pitfalls with some of the ideas, but I need to come up with a better explanation than the one I have in my mind.

For example, a central image lookup point may not work well with 3 different skins by three different authors. Who's images would be shown?