YahooXMLTv (requires Go for TV)

[Jim_]

<snip>
Still, an interesting theory and might be worth a post elsewhere because that's not how this grabber works.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought -this- utility only asks the Yahoo program to download the listings, and later gathers the data from the existing Y! download? If you prefer, you can even tell it to re-process the information after you manually update the Y! guide!
Personally, I've been looking at capture alternitaves that I already paid for, or are free for everyone, and I've been doing quite a bit of Tv capture using the Y! app and several other programs that were included with my HP Vista laptop. I’ll continue to sync my guides (for my personal use) until I’m told by someone from Y! / MS / HP (someone who isnt just guessing) that I cant.

BTW zehd and others, Why do people insist that colored gas & fuel is subsidized? Farmers shouldn’t have to pay a “road-tax” added-by-default to pump fuel, if the fuel isn’t used on the road!
Is the aviation industry “subsidized” because their fuel doesn’t come out of a service station pump and have a hidden “road-tax”, I don’t think so.

[whurlston]

To paraphrase Whurlston, 'helping people NOT subscribe keeps the price UP. Helping people avoid paying for the subscription costs me money...'

Pretty good paraphrase.

At any rate, I'm going to use the subscription service for the first three months. Hopefully after a couple of months we will know where we stand and can make a decision whether to move ahead on writing our own tools.

My sentiments exactly. If Schedules Direct does not work out I will happily re-instate and maintain the project. I simply feel that Schedules Direct is the best route right now, in terms of data content, reliability and legitimacy. I may be wrong but we don't know that at this time.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought -this- utility only asks the Yahoo program to download the listings, and later gathers the data from the existing Y! download? If you prefer, you can even tell it to re-process the information after you manually update the Y! guide!

Youre not wrong. That is precisely how this app works. The other Y! app works in the way smajor described.

Personally, I've been looking at capture alternitaves that I already paid for, or are free for everyone, and I've been doing quite a bit of Tv capture using the Y! app and several other programs that were included with my HP Vista laptop. I’ll continue to sync my guides (for my personal use) until I’m told by someone from Y! / MS / HP (someone who isnt just guessing) that I cant.

I understand your position Jim as I know you understand mine.

[Jim_]

I understand your position Jim as I know you understand mine.

Sorry to come here with my shorts in a bunch whurlston , you know I support and understand your decision. No one knows what will be available a year from now, or what they will need to use, this thread could be revived if people don’t make it into a morel battleground.

[zehd]

BTW zehd and others, Why do people insist that colored gas & fuel is subsidized?

I understand fully why I was lumped into the city slickers category for making my generalization. I was just making the analogy simple, so as not to confuse the main issue. I'm aware of the issue with the word 'subsidies' in this context. And that is an entirely different debate, for another time.

And certainly I'm trying not to turn this into a moral battle. Indeed I have tried to use respect when I post. (as I have seen from others too ) Perhaps the passion that comes forth from both sides is too much for this specific issue.

It is with respect that I recognize both Whurlston's and Jim_'s opinions. I never intended for my own opinion to stoke the controversy fire...

As I said, it is good that we have some solid alternatives to offer should SchedulesDirect not deliver.

I believe it is time for me to retire from this thread.

[Jim_]

Don’t mind me zehd, I’m just going through “epg withdraw syndrome“. :mad: :eek: :mad:
I plan on turning my internet off for a few days around the first of the month, if it gets too bad.

[PVRity]

Thanks for your considered opinion. I appreciate the constructive debate.

I appreciate the civil response as well. I fully understand those who want to go with the SD solution. It is easy and it's supported by members of the "homebrew" PVR community from XMLTV to GBPVR. I also understand why those who have decided to go with SD want others to go with that solution - it may bring the cost down for all (until TMS decides the community can afford more). However, in the final analysis, it is basically a demand for ongoing payment for uncopyrightable EPG schedule data. I have no problem with someone like TMS or TiVo selling easy access to reliable data, but if I just wanted easy, I could buy a TiVo.

I think it's completely unfair to the community to tag those who want to go the more difficult/less reliable route as lawbreakers and to try to discourage cooperation and development of tools that would give them that option. If the multiple non-NA XMLTV scrapers are legal (and I think they are) then a NA data source is legal too and should be allowed in the XMLTV fold just like the pre - DataDirect XMLTV scraper I started with. Let those who want the simplicity of SD go that route and those who don't develop their own solution.

It is the technical means of downloading that data with proprietary software into a proprietary database that is copyrighted and protected under the software license and terms of service. The software is designed to use and solely use that downloaded data.

If you have some basis for knowing that a specific tool violates a specific set of "TOS" then I'd like to look at those terms, but the ones I've looked at aren't violated by personal data use.

[whurlston]

If you have some basis for knowing that a specific tool violates a specific set of "TOS" then I'd like to look at those terms, but the ones I've looked at aren't violated by personal data use.

From the MCE TOS (See underlined):

Use of the Electronic Programming Guide Service. The EPG may only be accessed with an authorized personal computer using the Product. The EPG is offered solely for your personal and non-commercial use. Any commercial use of the EPG, or the resale or redistribution of any of its services or content, is expressly prohibited. You agree to abide by all applicable local, state, provincial, national, federal and international laws and regulations in your use of the EPG. You may not modify, copy, distribute, display, perform, sell, lease, license or create derivative works of any information obtained from the EPG.

I'm pretty sure that Y! Go for TV and other paid programs have similar wording.

[PVRity]

From the MCE TOS (See underlined):

Use of the Electronic Programming Guide Service. The EPG may only be accessed with an authorized personal computer using the Product. The EPG is offered solely for your personal and non-commercial use. Any commercial use of the EPG, or the resale or redistribution of any of its services or content, is expressly prohibited. You agree to abide by all applicable local, state, provincial, national, federal and international laws and regulations in your use of the EPG. You may not modify, copy, distribute, display, perform, sell, lease, license or create derivative works of any information obtained from the EPG.

I'm pretty sure that Y! Go for TV and other paid programs have similar wording.

MCE is probably one of the strictest TOS around. I looked at Y! and did not see anything similar. So let's look at MCE's TOS: The underlined portion that says "The EPG may only be accessed with an authorized personal computer using the Product" allows access with MCE, and I agree if you haven't paid for MCE and don't use a computer with MCE to d/l the data you are not authorized to access their EPG.

The underlined portion that says: "You may not modify, copy, distribute, display, perform, sell, lease, license or create derivative works of any information obtained from the EPG" does not seem to me to prohibit personal use. I think we can eliminate "distribute, perform, sell, lease and license" from consideration since personal use does not include those things.

I think "modify, display and copy" have to be read in light of the license which clearlry allows use of the data for a PVR (MCE). If you tried to read this so strictly that you couldn't even display the info on your monitor, or make a backup or copy it into RAM or copy it onto your HD, etc. you couldn't even use the EPG data for MCE. Since the license does not say you can copy it for MCE, but not for a similar PVR, any copying modification or displaying allowed for MCE is allowed by the license and anything allowed by the license that is not specifically allowed for only MCE is allowed - even for another PVR (provided that Microsoft has been paid for the EPG by purchase of MCE.)

Finally, we don't have to worry about "create derivative works of information" A "derivative work" is a copyright concept and applies only to copyrightable works, not uncopyrightable TV schedule facts or "information".

Microsoft has lots of expensive lawyers to write these things. It's not that hard to write "You can't use the EPG data to schedule recordings with any other PVR program."

Add to these comments my personal belief that there are limits on the restrictions that Microsoft can impose, even by their written agreement, with respect to the use of uncopyrightable "information" (to use their own words from the license). When I pay for certain information (and I currently own two copies of MCE, one copy of an ATI Wonder program, a TiVo and Y! all of which supply the EPG data) I believe I have the right to make personal use of it. That right is even stronger when the information in question is not copyrightable.

[kayleigh]

I had a quick support question...

I'm using this for EPG updates until I get the go-ahead to pay for Schedules Direct, but I'm running into a problem. I've logged in through the Y!G4TV interface & specified to keep myself logged in, then shut down the program. When I go to retrieve the EPG it telling me that access is denied and the logon info is something like ID: meedio@ meedio.com password: y. If I run the EPGUpdate.bat manually it downloads OK. Help? Thanks!

[whurlston]

PVRity, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

"the Product" is Media Center. "the EPG" is the data and all it's contents. See the full TOS if you question that. "The EPG may only be accessed with an authorized personal computer using the Product" to me is pretty clear cut that you can only access/view the data using MCE. Once you export it and use it in another PVR you are no longer using "using the Product".

That's the last I will say on the matter in this thread.

Back to the thread topic:

I had a quick support question...

I'm using this for EPG updates until I get the go-ahead to pay for Schedules Direct, but I'm running into a problem. I've logged in through the Y!G4TV interface & specified to keep myself logged in, then shut down the program. When I go to retrieve the EPG it telling me that access is denied and the logon info is something like ID: meedio@ meedio.com password: y. If I run the EPGUpdate.bat manually it downloads OK. Help? Thanks!

Sorry but I'm not sure I quite understand. Do you have Y! Go for TV running (not just installed) while trying to run the EPG update for GB-PVR? If so, the Y! database may be locked. Go for TV does not have to be running, only installed.