Which direction now?

[Ted the Penguin]

Since I think some of you are not getting a full appreciation for the timeline maintained by GBPVR in comskip processing and why comskip is complex a demo is in order.

Steps

1. Create a blank folder on a share that the PCH can access

For those of you who aren't comfortable with the command prompt I am uploading a 170MB sample of a reasonable approximation of a 5 minute comcleaned set of files http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I07WZAFK you can unzip to this folder and you can move to step 7. Otherwise

2. download mpgtx for Windows here http://mpgtx.sourceforge.net/#Download

3. from the command prompt navigate to the folder you made in step 1

4. Unzip mpgtx into this blank folder

5. Select a short mpeg-ps file you want to test for input for step 5

6. run mpgtx -s 10 \recordings\input.mpg

7. From the PCH native interface navigate to the share that you created in step 1.

8. Hit play (not ok) to start playing all the files in the folder sequentially.

9. If you hit skip and prev you can mimic comskip and judge the delay,

10. If you just let it play in order things seem ok, however

11. Because the timeline is broken you can't use the mono right/left arrows or the time seek anywhere but the first file. FF/RW might work. You also can only move between segment with prev and next.

So yes, this is comskip but I don't think people really want it, even as their number one priority. You have to factor in all the elements it isn't just just saying I want 1 then 2 then 3, it's pretty much all or continue with mono.

Martin

so what about taking the chopped up files and re-encoding them into something smaller, like, say, h.264, doesnt that fix the timeline? and save space

[mvallevand]

so what about taking the chopped up files and re-encoding them into something smaller, like, say, h.264, doesnt that fix the timeline? and save space

I don't think that people wanting comskip really want advanced comclean processing or comskip would be a non-issue. Also I feel many people still use their PCH and MVP's in a mixed environment so h264 isn't an option. A large part of the problem is having to deal with the lowest common denominator.

Martin

[philly_phenom]

comskip typically would only be used on mpegs or ts, [or dvrms] as most else won't be coming from tv so won't be any comms. to skip...

dvr-ms? I didn't think that worked w/ PCH...

[philly_phenom]

Not having a real timeline is a very bad idea, I use that a lot. So basicly I think you should go for the Syabas way, certainly when you believe you can influence their road map in a possitive way for GBPVR users. You should also think about the consequences for future emulation hardware, like the PS3. And what direction is mvpmc going?

Chris

It certainly sounds like you have some input (if not insight) into how Syabas is going to implement certain things. I agree that you should stick w/ Syabas - allowing them to handle playback makes the server do less work.

The main thing I've enjoyed is that I can play games on my PC with out people watching TV downstairs noticing anything.

[pBS]

i'd be in favor of no comskip if the timeline could show like mvp with comskip cuts visible so i can skip myself..

normally i'm all about efficiency...specially with hardware that is pushing it already..
usually less coding and lots of unforseen inherent benefits possible..[cool accidental 'features']

i thought you meant a continuous streaming method where the same stream keeps playing while server changes what's output to it for channels changes,comskip,etc..

Imagine 2 tvs, one showing a video camera shot of other tv, with it's remote control..channel changes/ff/rw are instant, etc....
feed from camera to 2nd tv analogous to a single continuous stream, appropriate video being fed to watcher based on keys sent during play..

so even when changing channels or skipping ff/rw/comskips, the stream would be instantaneous...guessing the timeline would have to be generated continuously..
pc can change format on fly, don't know about nmt tho,..would have to for this..
[like most recent Haupp. mvp transcode method, assuming similar to certain vlc streaming methods]

but i think we can all agree that resume is highest on list..
and i revise my list to say 1. resume 2. time based skip 3. osd
[and can i have fries with that? ]
j/k, looking forward to seeing where it all ends up..

[pBS]

btw, would your emulation mode work with haupp. mvp server?
nm, i just realized the number of reasons why it can't...

i still believe streaming is the way to go, it should work as all the player has to do is play the stream and send keystrokes back to server app where all work is done..[generating timeline, moving play pointer[skips],changing source, osd?] playing a black frame when no input to feed..
but yea, it would take a bit of cpu from server, but not too much and results are fantastic..
but i would understand completely if that was too much coding on your end..plus Syabas may not be too bad anyway..

[mvallevand]

i'd be in favor of no comskip if the timeline could show like mvp with comskip cuts visible so i can skip myself..

About the best I might be able to do is display a transparent png over the screen.

i thought you meant a continuous streaming method where the same stream keeps playing while server changes what's output to it for channels changes,comskip,etc..

Imagine 2 tvs, one showing a video camera shot of other tv, with it's remote control..channel changes/ff/rw are instant, etc....
feed from camera to 2nd tv analogous to a single continuous stream, appropriate video being fed to watcher based on keys sent during play..

so even when changing channels or skipping ff/rw/comskips, the stream would be instantaneous...guessing the timeline would have to be generated continuously..
pc can change format on fly, don't know about nmt tho,..would have to for this..

Even on the pc I think many of us know the disastrous result of just cutting one stream, there are still trick involved in what you are stating above. Some of these modes would work on the NMT but only if you just let them play.

Martin

[mvallevand]

btw, would your emulation mode work with haupp. mvp server?
nm, i just realized the number of reasons why it can't...

i still believe streaming is the way to go, it should work as all the player has to do is play the stream and send keystrokes back to server app where all work is done..[generating timeline, moving play pointer[skips],changing source, osd?] playing a black frame when no input to feed..
but yea, it would take a bit of cpu from server, but not too much and results are fantastic..

It works better than I expected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvDeGOViJZo

I used the Simese http server for this example.

The streaming used by Hauppauge and GBPVR might be the way to go if I didn't have to use mono. rtsp might work with mono.

Martin

[LewE]

My $0.02 worth, would be this (borrowing from jksmurf)...

1. Resume
   
2. Skip Fwd/Backward
   
3. Seek based on time rather than percentage
   
4. See The Timeline
   
5. Comskip
   

Same for me (functions and priority), except I don't care3 about Comskip at all.

For what it's worth, I use my regular use PC for the GBPVR function. I use Hauppauge cards that have the hardware encoding and the MVP and PCH which do the decoding so there is little impact on the PC and I can use it while it is recording programs. My preference would be that any future development keep the processing by GBPVR to a minimum, if possible. I don't know how this affects your decision.

[mvallevand]

Thanks everyone, I'm happy to see that I've got so much of input, and I wanted to let you know that I've decided stay the Syabas route at least for a the next two firmware releases. Hopefully the September-ish release will have resume, but who knows. At least a current thread on the NMT forum has some two way communication http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showth...494&page=2 on the heart of the timeline problem and maybe sometime in the fall we will see better Sigma libraries.

Here on this forum I do think there is enough of a split on the direction that I am not upsetting everyone by not focusing on comskip (which truly might be unobtainable) and this will allow me to focus on things I feel I can do (with sub's help of course). For the #1 priority users comclean might be the solution.

I am going to lock this thread since I don't want to confuse this direction topic with general questions that probably will still come up. This post could go on forever and probably will confuse people who start at the beginning even now but feel free to start related topics.

Thanks again.

Martin