Oh frack! ntl.dll nuttiness again.

[Pob]

Having replaced a motherboard and reinstalled Windows XP, my PC has been working fine - until last night.
But now GBPVR is crashing frequently again:
Faulting application pvrx2.exe, version 1.0.0.0, stamp 00000019, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.2180, stamp 411096b4, debug? 0, fault address 0x00011e58
This happens randomly whilst viewing TV, and most frequently when changing channels - either DVB-T or DVB-S.

As always seems the case, there were several things I did last night that could have caused this, and rather than just wiping the HDD again I would like to try and resolve it this time...

The most obvious problem is with MSI. I was tinkering with C:\Program Files\Devnz\GBPVR\media\ChannelLogos - I was adding some new logos and made the mistake (again!) of deleting some of the NZ TV logos residing there. This causes an instant problem with GBPVR; as soon as config or PVRX2 is launched, it detects that files are missing and MSI starts up. But it just goes into a loop - it goes through the install process for GBPVR, the progress bar increases from left to right, but then it seems to reverse with the progress bar decreasing from right to left. MSI says 'finished', but as soon as you try to launch config or PVRX2, it just starts up MSI again:-(
Even a system restore could not sort this out.
So I had to totally uninstall GBPVR and install from scratch. It now works, but it was after all this that I started getting the dreaded ntl.dll errors again. I have about twenty of them in the event log from last night - there have been no others since I reinstalled XP 2 weeks ago.

However this is not the only possible cause! Whilst I was tinkering with the logos, Windows update popped up and I downloaded and installed some updates;

• Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0 Service Pack 1 provides cumulative roll-up updates for customer reported issues found after the release of Microsoft .NET Framework 2.0. In addition, this release provides security improvements, and prerequisite feature support for .NET Framework 3.0 Service Pack 1, and .NET Framework 3.5. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer.
  

• update 927891 - This is a reliability update. This update resolves an issue in the Windows Installer (MSI) that can affect performance during software updates. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer.
  

Windows XP Update for Windows XP (KB927891) 19 August 2008 Automatic Updates
Windows XP Security Update for Internet Explorer 7 for Windows XP (KB938127) 19 August 2008 Automatic Updates
Windows XP Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (KB905474) 19 August 2008 Automatic Updates

I have uninstalled the updates, system restored to the day before any of this, but the ntl.dll problem persists. This is all very similar sequence of events to last time I had problems and returned the motherboard /reinstalled XP. IT is almost like one of the above actions causes some kind of permanent change, even after restoring / uninstalling.

There is a third possible cause, seemingly unlikely; rain. In the past a recurrent issue with Hauppauge cards is that they seem to need a very strong signal to work well - compared to STB's that can function with quite low signal strength & quality. It was raining hard here last night, and I know in particular satellite can be badly affected - especially using the 45cm mini-dishes common in the UK. But I don't know if poor signal could cause these ntl.dll errors....

[sub]

The MSI nuttiness wont be causing your ntl.dll problem. Its more likely something to do with your video drivers or motherboard chipset stuff.

I know the MSI installer doesnt like it if you try to delete the icons that were accidentally included with the installer - so resist the urge to delete them.

[Pob]

The MSI nuttiness wont be causing your ntl.dll problem. Its more likely something to do with your video drivers or motherboard chipset stuff. SNIP

I agree - but none of those have changed. Because this all happened simultaneously, it is very hard to see the wood from the trees!

[Dava]

it is very hard to see the wood from the trees!

I have the same hardware and the same problem has suddenly appeared. Reverting to backups did not help. Very frustrating.

As I am getting into the habit of throwing money at this problem, I am considering buying an nVidia 8500 to put into the PCIe slot. At £30 for a passive cooled one, this may be a cost effective solution.

[Pob]

I have the same hardware and the same problem has suddenly appeared. Reverting to backups did not help. Very frustrating.

As I am getting into the habit of throwing money at this problem, I am considering buying an nVidia 8500 to put into the PCIe slot. At £30 for a passive cooled one, this may be a cost effective solution.

I think your hunch may be correct Dava, and it is caused by the 780g. Because my system was stable after getting the board replaced, just like it was with the first board - for a few weeks only.
If you install speedfan, it reports a mysterious third temperature reading, and the consensus seems to be that this is the Northbridge temperature. At idle this temp averages 85c - but under load it typically rises to >120c!
One owner actually placed a temp sensor on the Northbridge, and got very similar readings. It was just unfortunate that Ebuyer replaced my board with another revision 1 board. Because Gigabyte replaced it very quickly with rev1.1 (within 2 months), with a much larger Northbridge heatsink, it does indicate they realised it was getting too hot. If this was the case, then it's a shame they did'nt own up to it and recall all the boards...
I can see that adding a PCI-E card may circumvent the problem, but really we should keep returning faulty boards until resolved. Just a shame it's so inconvenient...

[Dava]

If you install speedfan,

Hmmmm, I always have speedfan running (our similarities of choice are getting a bit freaky!) I wonder whether its interaction with the SMBUS could actually contribute? At idle, temp3 is 81C while with the others around 40C by the way.

I installed the CCC 8.8 driver set but no improvement. Mine will never autoinstall though, it always fails at the WDMs and when terminated reports an RPC failure. If I do the WDMs separately it works!! Have you seen this?

I am rapidly loosing confidence in this board.

[Pob]

I have the same hardware and the same problem has suddenly appeared. Reverting to backups did not help. Very frustrating.

As I am getting into the habit of throwing money at this problem, I am considering buying an nVidia 8500 to put into the PCIe slot. At £30 for a passive cooled one, this may be a cost effective solution.

I had the same idea - but ran into more problems. Because I am using both PCI slots, many of the passive cooled PCI-E cards are ruled out as they use two slots. So I got a single-slot fan-cooled Nvidia card by XFX. I was so looking forward to a stable HTPC, and I was completely amazed after putting the card in - I could not hear the fan at all!
You have probably guessed why - the fan was not spinning! I did get five minutes out of it - enough to install the drivers and change the resolution:-)
Then there was a bang, and the PC died. Opened the case and the card was so hot, there was a kind of heat-haze coming of it, and I am sure it was glowing a bit red! It was way too hot to touch. My own Chernobyl...
What happened is that, being a single-slot card, it takes up every bit of the space above the first PCI card. I could see it was tight, with only about 1mm of clearance. I was concerned about air flow (or rather lack of it), but what I did not factor in was that the back of the Hauppage card has several blobs of solder on it that are 1mm high...enough to stop the fan blades from spinning!
So moral is, with either a passive or fan-cooled card, say goodbye to one of the PCI slots.

[Pob]

Snip

I installed the CCC 8.8 driver set but no improvement. Mine will never autoinstall though, it always fails at the WDMs and when terminated reports an RPC failure. If I do the WDMs separately it works!! Have you seen this?

I am rapidly loosing confidence in this board.

Ah, you must be running Vista? I am still on XP.
Incredibly, the 8.8's are the same as the 8.7's, in that they will not work on XP - you just get a BSOD after rebooting. Despite ATI being totally aware, you still get taken to these drivers by their wizard (you know, where you select your OS and IGP type). So that is two versions in a row where they actually point you to download drivers for the 780g that they know will cause a BSOD - incredible! Of course you can get out of it by booting into safe mode and uninstalling, but such a hassle, and totally avoidable...
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.c...erthread=y
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.c...TMP=Linear
http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.c...erthread=y

[Dava]

Sorry to hear about your VGA nightmare!

Stranger and Stranger... My 8.8 is on XP, no BSOD when installed.

Looking at the CCC Software page though, it showing catalyst 8.8 and all the driver versions below:

Driver Packaging Version 8.522-080731a-067975C-ATI
Catalyst® Version 08.8
Provider ATI Technologies Inc.
2D Driver Version 6.14.10.6844
2D Driver File Path System/CurrentControlSet/Control/Video/{0FDC1BE1-5E67-4CE1-A512-C8A08C623716}/0000
Direct3D Version 6.14.10.0603
OpenGL Version 6.14.10.7873
Catalyst® Control Center Version 2008.0731.2322.39992
AIW/VIVO WDM Driver Version 6.14.10.6238
AIW/VIVO WDM SP Driver Version 6.14.10.6238
AV Stream (T550 Pro) Driver Version 6.14.10.186


Maybe I will not bother cleaning and reinstalling if I have a BSOD to look forward to.

I am just trying DVBDream to see how the S350 works there.

[Dava]

DVB works fine and is much nicer for scanning and finding channel info than ComproDTV. Thanks for the pointer. I will use this to find any missing channels until Sub can look at the scanning issues.

Looking at those posts on the ATI forum it seems we are not alone, having issues with this board.

However, as every other app using the 350 works without issues, I can only assume the hardware and BDA drivers are OK.

As playback from my other 2 sources in GBPVR work fine, I deduce that my playback drivers and codecs are OK.

This leads me to think that despite unresolved issues with the ATI drivers, there is something to do with the extra filters that GBPVR inserts, or the way it handles the stream that causes the NTDLL error. The tuning request does not seem to be the cause as I get an image and sound for around 2 seconds before the error.

On the bright side, I can still record all of the kids stuff and playback is fine, I just can't currently use it as the total solution that is so very close but as yet unobtainable.