NextPVR Web console to replace NEWA one day?

[reven]

i had a big post written out explaining stuff, but at the end of the day its tiring and kinda pointless.

im not trying to piss anyone off, if you guys dont want this ill just pack my bag and leave. if you do want a newer web console which is community driven and open source can we just stop all this fighting and move forward?

im not stopping anyone helping out with this console, im just trying to give it clear direction and focus it. its early days and im more worried about getting the core of it right than to complicate the interface with halved baked features.

my goals are
- API at core which every client communicates via the same way, so code is reused and solid (no duplication or variations of behaviour)
- latest technologies so runs on all device, desktops, tablets, phones, xbmc
- visually appealing and professional.
- fully headless system
- extremely stable

at the end of the day its up to the community as to what they want.

[Jakesty]

I would just say that support and testing are important, but even more so is collaboration and involvement from the community. Because as time goes on your availability or desire to continue to help or support this new interface may change and it's best to have others who may be able to continue where you left off. Collaboration with others who have "lived" with these changes can really help you too in determining the right path.

I like your fortitude and would love to see continued development. I hope we all can make this the best possible product there is. Thank you for your time and development skills.

Jake

[reven]

i also used this project to learn more knockoutjs, webapi and signalr, i used it as a research task at work. i needed to learn those technologies and was looking for a real world application to learn them against (fake stuff never turns up real problems that you need to overcome, like the tv guide, i tried 3 different methods of rendering that to optimise the speed).

im wanting to use this to learn more jquery mobile (or another mobile framework) and the mobile support in MVC. Also will likely try developing a windows phone 8 / windows 8 app at one point using the API. thats my main reason as to wanting to do all the foundations myself, to actually learn the technology.

ive been a professional web developer for the past 6.5 years, working with
- ASP
- ASP.net webforms 1.1
- ASP.net webforms 2
- ASP.net ajax
- ASP.net mvc2
- ASP.net mvc3
- ASP.net mvc4
- javascript
- jquery
- jquery ui
- Webservices
- WCF services
- IIS 6 and 7
- WMI
- C# windows services and winforms
- HTML 5 and CSS 3
- web app testing using selenium, watin, autoit (gui testing)

I work on MailMarshal SPE which is basically a web front end for MailMarshal, it takes that product and makes it do something it wasnt designed to do, by taking a single customer product and making it a multi customer product. Much as ive done with NextPVR, making a single user application a multiple user application.

i do have the background and skill set to get the foundations right on my own but want to make it open so the project would benefit from community input.

i do consider this my project, as much as UJB would consider NEWA his project (which is clear from all the *hatred* towards this, not from UJB necessarily, just the feeling im getting. Theres been lots of talk about how im putting NEWA down, but my point of view is you're ragging on me, i was just trying to explain why i believe a new web frontend is needed). im sure its just the conversation medium, text not conveying tone and im reading it wrong, but thats the feeling im getting.

i rather be open and honest, discuss the flaws of NEWA so the webconsole doesnt suffer the same flaws. Discuss the benefits of NEWA so webconsole can incorporate those. discuss the flaws in the webconsole so they can be fixed.

I have no intentions of asking sub to replace NEWA in the next release, maybe not even the release after that, it may never replace it, but thats my ultimate goal, but for that to happen it must
- have community support
- be rock solid (unit tests help here, and by using WebAPI and MVC writing unit tests becomes very easy, in webforms theyre very very hard to do)
- feature rich but not feature bloated
- full API so other developers dont need to write their own API service to communicate with NextPVR.

[steeb]

Arrrgggghhhhh,

all I read from you reven is blah blah, take it or don't!

That is not what I believe has been said to you?

Read, look, listen?

Like cutting wood measure once, measure again, then make sure you measured the 3rd time before you cut?

Soooo frustrating. Why pack your bags and leave? Why upset people before you have begun and then pack your bags any way?

And why am I saying this? Because I have upset soooo many members on this forum I would not want you to do the same :eek:

cheers

steeb

[reven]

i meant if no one wants to use it, then theres no point me really releasing it is there? I spent a few days working on the installer to make it easy for people to use, something I personally didnt need to use. ill continue to work on it as ill use it, but really why release it if theres no want for it???

what im taking from this is NEWA is fine, it works and theres no desire from some people to replace it and i get the feeling some people (not UJB) is pissed off im even trying to saying why i believe its need, and people are defending the person UJB because of his all his hard work (which is fine hes done a great job and done it for a long time) but not really admitting to the reality that is NEWA and how it compares to other PVR web consoles out there. seriously look at NEWA and look at for the records web interface.

I believe NEWA major problem is its age, its just old and using old technlogies, not saying its rubbish, not saying is poorly written, not saying its crap or anything. I'm just saying its old. look at gmail 5 years ago to what it is now, gmail 5 years ago was awesome, but now its a lot better and looks a lot better.

this webconsole isnt closed, its open its a step forward seriously cant we all just admit the situation and move forward?

[steeb]

Agreed,

I don't believe anyone is defending anyone, it is how it is approached?

I am certain that the web console will be very highly used.

I am not defending anyone, just speaking on part of a community I think I am part of.

All I said at the start was not against the intention BUT the approach?

That is all I read in your responses, IMHO you were not hearing the team?

I do not know what to say more over.

I really think the web console looks fantastic.

cheers

steeb

[mvallevand]

I am actually looking forward to trying it, but I'm also trying to get xbmc beta 2 running WELL on so many clients is taking all my time now. I disagree with steeb (not surprisingly) I think you have made your point and in no way do I want you to stop.

I rarely use NEWA much through the browser, and I don't personally need multiple users although I wish sub's core supported it, My concern is I am not sure why we need a second web service since if you check the WSDL's that UJB provides I think they are a already pretty complete abstraction of sub's API's it is well thought out and nicely documented The fact that sub, you and bgowland all decided to develop your own has seemed a bit odd.

As for GPL, I have found with x-newa it is a nuisance because NextPVR is closed source. If sub releases a beta you are limited to what you can release even to beta testers. UJB distributes his code too so it still allows updating. I'm sure if someone create a more modern look he'd add it.

Some of us remember this though http://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php...ah-im-back so you have left a few times.

Martin

[stustunz]

yeah reven you got me excited 2 years ago with Videos plugin where the f%$k is it

[bgowland]

...if you check the WSDL's that UJB provides I think they are a already pretty complete abstraction of sub's API's it is well thought out and nicely documented The fact that sub, you and bgowland all decided to develop your own has seemed a bit odd.

I use NEWA's web-services for a lot of nDroid via the nDroid Service which basically just acts as a proxy. It was a no-brainer Martin - developing Android apps to talk directly to .NET Web Services is a PITA and horribly slow and inefficient in real-world use. nDroid also needed to be available off-line in my design model which basically negates any direct query of things like the TV Guide etc so needed the 'proxy' aspect to create the mirror of the various DB tables...I could go on.

UJB was very helpful in helping me understand .NET Web Services in general but experiments showed direct access didn't fit my design (or even efficiency of any mobile platform outside of a high-speed wireless LAN) - another reason for the nDroid Service 'proxy'..

Anyway, I hadn't intended to post on this thread but you did mention my name.

Cheers,
Brian

[reven]

I left last time because of xbmc. I've never really left xbmc in a few years. I don't see me leaving nextpvr any time soon now with xbmc support

Basically the webconsole reimplements subs API just so I can provide users support to xbmc. But all the. Methods are called the exact same way and return the exact same output. I'm hoping that if this one day bundled with the core nextpvr that this API is used over subs one. As its open source. Sub could easily make code changes to it as well. Just saves having two different ports open

Then there's the more complete API which exposes everything. News doesn't do this as it does support configuring over nextpvr itself. Also being a restful API it's a little easier to use on some platforms. I'm using Juergen everywhere that talks to the API directly.

Like I said. I wrote this to learn some technology. I needed to learn webapi so I couldnt just reuse the newa API. This project was alway about using the latest and greatest tech and bringing nextpvr web front into 2012/2013.

Also if I said I was going to start rewriting it from the get go I'm sure I would of had more opposition and questioning. By actually provided a feature rich alpha, open source, unit tested webapp. I'm hoping you see how serious I am about this and what the quality of my work will be like

Written from iPhone so many having typos