editing start and end times for recordings

[guma]

Hi,

is it possible to manually edit start and end times for recordings created using the TV guide?

The problem around here is that some channels include their own 'padding' in the EPG starting times, i.e. shows supposed to start at 20:15h have their EPG starting time set to 20:14h. Since program starting times are pretty much standardized across channels and not all channels have this 'pre-padding' in the EPG info, this often leads to recording scheduling conflicts that could easily solved by manually editing the start/end times (or by negative padding times), but I can't find such functions in NPVR. Did I miss some setting somewhere that could make this possible? Any suggestions about how to deal with this issue (other than scheduling recordings via the manual recording dialogue)?

[mvallevand]

No not for recurring recordings. For you example just use less pre-padding.

Martin

[johnsonx42]

@martin, I don't think he's using NPVR padding at all. he's got conflicts caused by padding being built-in to the EPG time... so a show ending at 20:15 prevents the next show starting at 20:15 from being recorded, because the EPG has been "pre-padded" already and says that show starts at 20:14. we get the same thing here, where a show runs from 22:00 to 23:01 instead of 23:00, so other shows that start at 23:00 can't be recorded on the same tuner, yet the extra minute is just credits or a preview of next week's show that no one cares about (having 4 tuners + multi-record means this is never actually a problem here).

@guma, no I don't think there's anything you can do. what you want is a feature that has been requested before called "negative padding" (or "start recording x minutes late"). alternately it would be nice if NPVR had some logic that says "starting a recording 1 minute late is better than not recording it at all"... however such logic is not there.

all I can suggest at this time is another tuner.

[guma]

@guma, no I don't think there's anything you can do. what you want is a feature that has been requested before called "negative padding" (or "start recording x minutes late"). alternately it would be nice if NPVR had some logic that says "starting a recording 1 minute late is better than not recording it at all"... however such logic is not there.
.

Thanks for making that clear. (I was somehow expecting I must have missed something since NPVR seems to be such a feature rich tool)

Why can't the editing dialogue for manually set up recordings be used for recordings scheduled from the program guide too? That would enable the user to adjust start and end times in cases where programs overlap. Or does NPVR actually update the recording schedule together with EPG data?

Is there some documentation of the program other than the WIKI where you can find information about such things?

[johnsonx42]

Why can't the editing dialogue for manually set up recordings be used for recordings scheduled from the program guide too? That would enable the user to adjust start and end times in cases where programs overlap. Or does NPVR actually update the recording schedule together with EPG data?

Yes, NPVR does update the recording schedule when it does the EPG update. So EPG based recordings can only start and end when the EPG says they are supposed to. In fact before the EPG update NPVR cancels all upcoming recordings that came from Recurring Recording requests, then updates the EPG and finally re-schedules all the recurring recordings based on the new EPG data. So even if you could adjust the start or end time of a recording, the adjustment would disappear during the EPG update.

NPVR does have a feature called Pre-Padding and Post-Padding, where it can add extra time on to the beginning and end of recordings on an "if possible" basis (and of course some people think Padding is just great that way, others think Padding is essentially useless if it isn't mandatory). The Padding can only be positive though, which is why we sometimes call the feature you want "Negative Padding" - start recording late, and/or end the recording early. It's not quite so simple though as just saying "ok, Padding can be negative now"... an extra layer of logic would have to be added to the EPG update routine to handle it. It's one of those things that's been asked for more than once, it's just a matter of when/if sub wants to spend any time on it. It's also the sort of change that can introduce other problems in a complicated area of the program, so I suspect sub is reticent to just jump in.

[ttfitz]

The Padding can only be positive though, which is why we sometimes call the feature you want "Negative Padding" - start recording late, and/or end the recording early.

I just wanted to point out that the TV Listings plug-in DOES allow for negative padding, and I have used it in the past (during football season when games run long and push back scheduled shows). Don't know the logic that gets used to make this happen, so I don't know if it overcomes the problem that the OP is having, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[rbmcgee]

I've never tried negative padding with npvr and I don't know what the tv listings plugin is, however, I use GBPVR fed with a 1600 w/ OTA antenna. The epg is schedules direct.

For some reason schedules direct lists the wrong time for Frasier which is a recurring program I record. The epg says 2:35 to 3:05 am. But that's not true. The actual time the program is shown is 2:30 to 3:00 am. For pre-padding I use 5 minutes and for post-padding I use -5 minutes. GBPVR starts recording at 2:30 and stops recording at 3:00. Perfect timing.

[guma]

Yes, NPVR does update the recording schedule when it does the EPG update. So EPG based recordings can only start and end when the EPG says they are supposed to. In fact before the EPG update NPVR cancels all upcoming recordings that came from Recurring Recording requests, then updates the EPG and finally re-schedules all the recurring recordings based on the new EPG data. So even if you could adjust the start or end time of a recording, the adjustment would disappear during the EPG update.
.

Ok, that explains it. May I suggest to include the documentation of this behavior in the WIKI.
How does NPVR behave if a recording schedule conflict is generated through updated EPG data? Will it always - and completely - cancel the later recording?

If I may request a feature: Why not make recording schedule updates based on EPG data changes optional.
As I see it, the current behavior mainly caters to installations where the hardware allows for multiple parallel recordings. But I suggest to consider installations incapable of handling parallel recordings as a valid use case too.

[guma]

I just wanted to point out that the TV Listings plug-in DOES allow for negative padding, and I have used it in the past (during football season when games run long and push back scheduled shows). Don't know the logic that gets used to make this happen, so I don't know if it overcomes the problem that the OP is having, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Could you please explain how you got this plugin to accept negative padding?
I installed TV Listing and TV Recording, activated these plugins, de-activated the stock TV Guide and Recording plugins. The plugins work just fine but I can't enter negative padding values. Do you have to set something somewhere to enable this function?

[ttfitz]

Could you please explain how you got this plugin to accept negative padding?
I installed TV Listing and TV Recording, activated these plugins, de-activated the stock TV Guide and Recording plugins. The plugins work just fine but I can't enter negative padding values. Do you have to set something somewhere to enable this function?

In the settings for TV Listings, under the Misc tab, you have to uncheck "Use default schedule popup". If you use the default, it acts like the default TV Guide, and won't allow negative values.