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Windows Media Center 7 works well. NextPVR not so much.

Windows Media Center 7 works well. NextPVR not so much.
t^2
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#1
2013-12-12, 01:56 PM (This post was last modified: 2013-12-12, 02:25 PM by t^2.)
My HTPC is an Acer Aspire X1200-U1520A (specs). The computer is connected to a Samsung (don't have the model number handy at the moment) 37" HDTV (720P native). Two tuners are installed. The first is an ATI 650 Combo PCIe and the other is an AverMedia M780. Operating system is Windows 7 Home Premium. My cable provider is Comcast (Baltimore - Essex, Maryland).

I've been using WMC for some time. WMC has always just worked on my system. No performance issues, artifacts, or anomalies in video or audio.

I'd like to get the same results with NextPVR, but so far I haven't been able to get there. I've installed SAF6 (unlocked). Tried all the Renderer options (but primarily EVR). I've tried all the the MPEG2 Video Decoders (but primarily Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder and PDVD13).

So the problems I'm seeing in NextPVR that I don't ever see with WMC are some artifacts or freezing/stuttering seen in live TV (HD/SD). It's especially noticeable when watching the news and they display their graphics in the background (to the side of the reporters head) our full screen (like say a traffic or weather report graphic). You can see the lines in the graphic (for example a road) flicker momentarily here and there. It happens every few seconds to many seconds apart. I don't know if it's an interlacing problem, some kind of sync problem, frame rate or what. You can also see it happen in regular video - say watching a persons head/face as they speak or watching a train move on the screen. The motion just seems to stutter ever so briefly for a second here and there. Rapidly panning video also seems to be an issue.

So what special sauce is WMC using that NextPVR isn't? There's got to be something different about how the two pieces of software go about their business because they produce different results. I've noted DirectShow vs. Media Foundation, but I'm not a software engineer/programmer so the significance in this application probably escapes me.

I'll also note that I have another desktop the I'm serving live TV to with NPVR Server to NPVR client (hardwired CAT5/Ethernet from Netgear router). I installed a NVidia GeForce 8500 GT in that computer a few years back (it's not using it's integrated). I don't recall off my head the rest of the computer specs (but note that it's a few years older then the Acer I mentioned above). It's connected to a Viewsonic 17" monitor. Anyway, served live TV plays beautifully on this desktop. I'm assuming that it's sent as MPEG2 to the client and is decoded on the client computer via the GeForce 8500 GT (DXVA hardware acceleration). Essentially, my assumption is that NextPVR is doing basically the same thing on both machines except the source is different for the MPEG2 (tuner card vs. Ethernet stream). So why is NPVR working so well on the other desktop vs. my HTPC connected to my HDTV?
Graham
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#2
2013-12-12, 02:41 PM
What happens if you record a News broadcast and playback the recording on each of the two machines using the same renderer and decoder settings? It may suggest a graphics driver type issue if the results are different on each machine?
t^2
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#3
2013-12-12, 02:44 PM
Don't know... But I'll try it when I get home.
mikeh49
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#4
2013-12-12, 03:03 PM
+1 on Graham' s suggestion. You can also start recording a show you want to watch and then watch the in-progress recording. Bottom line is that live TV is different than recording playback in NPVR. People have more issues with live TV than recordings.

In my experience, your video processors are at the bottom end of acceptable for US HDTV. I have a 7600GT that barely makes the cut; my main system is a 9500GT. Your 8200 is probably crippled compared to the 8500. I had a ATI 780G board (probably similar to the 8200) and that would not handle HD well at all. My 9500 is pretty solid, although there is a little hitch now and then on CBS 1080i, not enough take any action. Never see a problem on any other network. All on clear QAM for me. I almost never watch live TV on the box, but there is the occasional glitch for me, although mostly audio hiccups.

I use the EVR renderer, MS DTV-DVD decoder and AC3 filter for audio.

No idea why WMC works better.
HTPC: Optiplex 7010, HDHR Prime/Avermedia Duet A188, NPVR 4.2.5, Win10 Pro
Test:
t^2
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#5
2013-12-12, 03:30 PM
mikeh49 Wrote:No idea why WMC works better.

See that's the rub. If the 8200 GPU isn't up to the task, then how does it do fine when playing live TV with WMC? Also, it plays everything else fine too - H.264 videos, DVD's, Blueray, etc...
Graham
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#6
2013-12-12, 04:00 PM
t^2 Wrote:... how does it do fine when playing live TV with WMC?
That might be the next step ... if you have a recording that plays not so good in NextPVR ... we can play the same recording in WMC and see what happens.
t^2
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#7
2013-12-12, 04:15 PM
Graham Wrote:That might be the next step ... if you have a recording that plays not so good in NextPVR ... we can play the same recording in WMC and see what happens.

Ok, Ill add that to the to-do list.
t^2
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#8
2013-12-13, 12:45 AM
Graham Wrote:That might be the next step ... if you have a recording that plays not so good in NextPVR ... we can play the same recording in WMC and see what happens.

Ok... here are my results (on my Acer HTPC):

- WMC 7 Live TV: Good
- WMC 7 playback of Live TV recorded with WM7: Good

- NPVR Live TV: No Good
- NPVR playback of Live TV recorded with NVPR: No Good (worse than Live TV)

- WMC 7 playback of Live TV recorded with NVPR: Good

- NVPR playback of Live TV recorded with WMC 7: Terrible (used Lav Decoder and was video totally out of sync with audio initially and then froze)

Results on my client desktop:

- NPVR Live TV: Good
- NPVR playback of Live TV recorded with NPVR: Good
- NPVR playback of Live TV recorded with WMC7: Good
- NPVR Live TV while simultaneously recording the same station: Good
Reddwarf
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#9
2013-12-13, 01:45 AM
Don't use the LAV video decoder use Microsoft's or Cyberlink. Since there is obviously nothing wrong with npvr's recordings, the problem lies in playback. Have you tried to look at the graphic cards settings? I suspect WMC has a some oyher way to access the card, which third party applications don't have.

"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"
t^2
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#10
2013-12-13, 02:05 AM
Reddwarf Wrote:Don't use the LAV video decoder use Microsoft's or Cyberlink. Since there is obviously nothing wrong with npvr's recordings, the problem lies in playback. Have you tried to look at the graphic cards settings? I suspect WMC has a some oyher way to access the card, which third party applications don't have.

LAV Video Decoder wasn't selected in NPVR, but that's what it used for playback of the WTV file. Perhaps a merit thing?

I've looked at NVidia control panel. But what's exposed in it that would be useful in this case, I don't know...

Ya.... I surmised that there's something up with the way NPVR handles playback. But what?
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