Need help setting up with Ceton

[rytomi]

Nevermind, I found it in the Public Directory.

Exited NPVR, stopped the NPVR service, Deleted the nvpr.db3 file.

Rebooted, setup Tuner 1 again. Opened NPVR and tried Live TV, still nothing happens. Tried Record and Quick Record, still nothing happens.

Everything is exactly the same as before. New logs attached.

[sub]

Can you update to the current 4.1.0 release to see if it help?

[rytomi]

Can you update to the current 4.1.0 release to see if it help?

Installed latest version. Deleted the nvpr.db3 file again, rebooted, did the setup. Still exactly the same.

Logs attached.

[BrettB]

Installed latest version. Deleted the nvpr.db3 file again, rebooted, did the setup. Still exactly the same.

Logs attached.

I'm going to have to defer to sub on this one. It seems like the cablecardhost process for tuner id 21 isn't starting up when the recording service restarts the last time. I'm guessing that it is something Ceton specific, and not very many users have Ceton capture devices, so I'm not as familiar with how it is supposed to work. Sorry.

[rytomi]

Does no one know how to get a Ceton tuner working on NPVR?

[Lone_Stranger]

rytomi,

Like you, I migrated from years of being happy with WMC. I tried multiple Home Theater options, and finally settled on NPVR, as it's simple, consistent, and reliable - for the most part. Others I tried were simply way overly complex. But, I did determine that NPVR documentation was lacking. It seems it was written for techies, by techies. An awful lot is left out, and one has to stumble through exercises to find out how it really works. Thankfully, I'm nearly through it. The one major shortcoming I've found is the lack of examples. To minimize frustrations for you, I've included my config file details for you, so you don't have to experiment.

I am using 4 Ceton Ethernet tuner cards. One is a 6-tuner version which I purchased new, and three are the 4-tuner variety purchased via E-Bay. I have absolutely no problems with any of them (thanks Sub), unless I use Windows 10. I have dropped Win-X in favor of Win-7, as it's much more reliable and causes less interruptions due to updates. I have also used Win-X, but went back to Win-7, because Win-X gives me fits due to it's "OS as a service" philosophy, wherein it continually updates files and changes settings while they are in-use (running).

I see that you have the Ceton drivers installed, and that you've successfully scanned your channels, albeit on only one device (Tuner-1). I've found that NPVR usually selects devices in reverse order, which might mean that it's trying to use tuner-6 (which in your initial case, had no channels associated with it). Hopefully, you've re-scanned your tuner(s) and re-associated the channels to all devices, as BrettB suggested.

I've recently re-installed NPVR on all of my PC's, due to the update to 4.1.0 in March. To do that, I simply stopped NPVR and it's service, removed the old NPVR application and then deleted every extra file in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\NPVR" folder (simply started over clean). I left my old config and scripts in the "C:\Public\NPVR" folder, which allows for a real simple/clean upgrade/re-install (thanks Sub).

Once installed, make sure that the NPVR Service has been installed and that it's active. Then have NPVR scan one tuner. The resulting channel list can then be used for all other devices (it'll ask you). Make sure that all devices have the same number of channels defined (see my examples below). Don't try to second guess the configuration, as I did. I tried to configure only one device, thinking I could use the others for WMC while testing. Nope...

Don't try to "Watch" channels to see if they're working. One would think that "Watching" is the simplest and quickest way to test, but you'd be wrong. It's actually the slowest and most problematic function, in that it uses WMC and it's default decoders. Instead, when testing, do a "Quick Record" for 10 seconds and then try to play it back.

Unfortunately, NPVR does not include any "default" decoders/codecs for MPEG2 - which is what most programs are recorded as. Because I use Win-7, I don't worry about this, since Win-7 includes a very good default from Micro$oft. But, Micro$oft decided that there was money left on the table, so they removed the free MPEG2 codec, and offered a fee based version. This means that end-users now have to source and install a fee based codec in order to play almost all recordings (and they wonder why end-users are fed up). But, there are some free codecs available - do a search. Many 3rd party software vendors include MPEG2 codecs for free (you might already have one).

Make sure that you're using "Schedules Direct" to populate your EPG (while evaluating/testing, you can opt for a 30 day trial period for no cost). Trying to record without an EPG will result in nothing working, because NPVR "starts" from the EPG. No EPG, no recording.

Don't make changes unless you understand the reason. I've made assumptions in the past, based upon what I thought an option meant, only to have NPVR unresponsive. I checked "Use alternate OSD with missing video", as I thought it might display a reason for missing video. As I changed other stuff as well, the result was not what I expected. Stay with the defaults, and only change one thing at a time.

The included example is more than that. It is my actual config file that I use daily - it works. If you installed NPVR 4.1.0 cleanly (as detailed above), scanned your devices correctly, using "Schedules Direct" EPG, and your config looks like mine, it should simply work. No issues with firewalls or other security stuff.

Finally, if you download and install TEAMVIEWER (Ver 13), then I, and others here, can connect to your system and check it over for you. That might be the simplest and quickest way to get you going. TeamViewer is perfectly safe, since there's a password required each time a connection is made, and you can watch what we do - just don't have personal stuff online.

Dale

[rytomi]

rytomi,

Like you, I migrated from years of being happy with WMC. I tried multiple Home Theater options, and finally settled on NPVR, as it's simple, consistent, and reliable - for the most part. Others I tried were simply way overly complex. But, I did determine that NPVR documentation was lacking. It seems it was written for techies, by techies. An awful lot is left out, and one has to stumble through exercises to find out how it really works. Thankfully, I'm nearly through it. The one major shortcoming I've found is the lack of examples. To minimize frustrations for you, I've included my config file details for you, so you don't have to experiment.

I am using 4 Ceton Ethernet tuner cards. One is a 6-tuner version which I purchased new, and three are the 4-tuner variety purchased via E-Bay. I have absolutely no problems with any of them (thanks Sub), unless I use Windows 10. I have dropped Win-X in favor of Win-7, as it's much more reliable and causes less interruptions due to updates. I have also used Win-X, but went back to Win-7, because Win-X gives me fits due to it's "OS as a service" philosophy, wherein it continually updates files and changes settings while they are in-use (running).

I see that you have the Ceton drivers installed, and that you've successfully scanned your channels, albeit on only one device (Tuner-1). I've found that NPVR usually selects devices in reverse order, which might mean that it's trying to use tuner-6 (which in your initial case, had no channels associated with it). Hopefully, you've re-scanned your tuner(s) and re-associated the channels to all devices, as BrettB suggested.

I've recently re-installed NPVR on all of my PC's, due to the update to 4.1.0 in March. To do that, I simply stopped NPVR and it's service, removed the old NPVR application and then deleted every extra file in the "C:\Program Files (x86)\NPVR" folder (simply started over clean). I left my old config and scripts in the "C:\Public\NPVR" folder, which allows for a real simple/clean upgrade/re-install (thanks Sub).

Once installed, make sure that the NPVR Service has been installed and that it's active. Then have NPVR scan one tuner. The resulting channel list can then be used for all other devices (it'll ask you). Make sure that all devices have the same number of channels defined (see my examples below). Don't try to second guess the configuration, as I did. I tried to configure only one device, thinking I could use the others for WMC while testing. Nope...

Don't try to "Watch" channels to see if they're working. One would think that "Watching" is the simplest and quickest way to test, but you'd be wrong. It's actually the slowest and most problematic function, in that it uses WMC and it's default decoders. Instead, when testing, do a "Quick Record" for 10 seconds and then try to play it back.

Unfortunately, NPVR does not include any "default" decoders/codecs for MPEG2 - which is what most programs are recorded as. Because I use Win-7, I don't worry about this, since Win-7 includes a very good default from Micro$oft. But, Micro$oft decided that there was money left on the table, so they removed the free MPEG2 codec, and offered a fee based version. This means that end-users now have to source and install a fee based codec in order to play almost all recordings (and they wonder why end-users are fed up). But, there are some free codecs available - do a search. Many 3rd party software vendors include MPEG2 codecs for free (you might already have one).

Make sure that you're using "Schedules Direct" to populate your EPG (while evaluating/testing, you can opt for a 30 day trial period for no cost). Trying to record without an EPG will result in nothing working, because NPVR "starts" from the EPG. No EPG, no recording.

Don't make changes unless you understand the reason. I've made assumptions in the past, based upon what I thought an option meant, only to have NPVR unresponsive. I checked "Use alternate OSD with missing video", as I thought it might display a reason for missing video. As I changed other stuff as well, the result was not what I expected. Stay with the defaults, and only change one thing at a time.

The included example is more than that. It is my actual config file that I use daily - it works. If you installed NPVR 4.1.0 cleanly (as detailed above), scanned your devices correctly, using "Schedules Direct" EPG, and your config looks like mine, it should simply work. No issues with firewalls or other security stuff.

Finally, if you download and install TEAMVIEWER (Ver 13), then I, and others here, can connect to your system and check it over for you. That might be the simplest and quickest way to get you going. TeamViewer is perfectly safe, since there's a password required each time a connection is made, and you can watch what we do - just don't have personal stuff online.

Dale

Thanks for all the information! I'll definitely try removing everything and trying again. As for the Windows version, the ONLY reason I'm moving away from WMC is because I'm moving to Windows 10. Windows 10 offers several advantages for an HTPC that Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 just can't do. Of course, the problem is it misses the main piece - a Live TV/DVR application.

As for some setup items, I've intentionally not setup the EPG yet, as I intend on finding a free EPG solution. The entire reason I moved to HTPC in the first place (15 years ago) was to avoid unnecessary recurring charges. That's not to say I'm cheap - I'm happy to straight-up pay for a solution that works, but I don't want to be constantly paying for something extra. I've there's ways to get XML files from Zap2It and other providers which can be used, and that's probably what I'm going to do. Is there seriously no way to make NPVR just show me some video or record something without a guide?

I actually do use teamviewer and wouldn't mind letting someone take a crack at it, if they so incline to go crazy. I'm by no means a tech novice, but trying to get NPVR working is no doubt the most frustrating thing I've ever done - no matter what I click, or no matter how many tutorials I try to follow, I never get the same results. Some people have said it's the fact I'm using a Ceton tuner to blame, but I don't buy it... If it works on Windows 7 it should work on Windows 10.

[sub]

Is there seriously no way to make NPVR just show me some video or record something without a guide?

It doesn't require a guide. You can still watch channels, and set manual recordings, but that is next to useless for a PVR - it'd be a shitty experience...you'd definitely want a guide.

There is a few people that use zap2xml for getting a free guide. From past experience, you'll end up spending more than $25 of our time and yours each year keeping zap2xml going though...just saying...

FYI, the reason I'm not jumping forward and offering much advice, this is the only class of device that NextPVR supports where the author doesn't actually have one, or any way to test it. Support for it was added years ago, by remotely experimenting on other peoples machines. Since then Ceton has pretty much gone out of business, and there is very few Ceton users about, so it doesn't really get much focused NextPVR support.

[rytomi]

It doesn't require a guide. You can still watch channels, and set manual recordings, but that is next to useless for a PVR - it'd be a shitty experience...you'd definitely want a guide.

There is a few people that use zap2xml for getting a free guide. From past experience, you'll end up spending more than $25 of our time and yours each year keeping zap2xml going though...just saying...

FYI, the reason I'm not jumping forward and offering much advice, this is the only class of device that NextPVR supports where the author doesn't actually have one, or any way to test it. Support for it was added years ago, by remotely experimenting on other peoples machines. Since then Ceton has pretty much gone out of business, and there is very few Ceton users about, so it doesn't really get much focused NextPVR support.

Hi Sub! Great to hear from you! My intention isn't to keep it with no guide or anything (I definitely agree that'd be a pretty shitty experience). I just want to get the basics working before doing more work on the guide and everything else.

The main reason I'd like to get the Ceton working is I have Comcast cable service. For those familiar, Comcast gives you the first CableCARD free, and then charges about $8/mo for each additional. Using 1 Ceton is $100 cheaper yearly than using 2 HDHomeRuns (I do think the HDHR is a better product, but just not enough tuners).

I don't expect anyone to solve all my problems for me, but someone here said NPVR is trying to record from a "non existent capture source", and I think that's the root of my issue, not that I know what to do with that information.

[sub]

I don't expect anyone to solve all my problems for me, but someone here said NPVR is trying to record from a "non existent capture source", and I think that's the root of my issue, not that I know what to do with that information.

From your logs, I think that is kind of a deceptive message - it's more a case of it failed in an unexpected way when NextPVR asked the capture source to start. Its not entirely clear what is unhappy with though.