Help make new default skin

[Old Dog]

I think there is a trend.
Two schools of thought.
1.) Information, lots of it, easily accessible and readable.
2.) Clean and simple.

1 implies panels, and smaller fonts, for more information.
2 implies what we already have, simple, easy.

I agree with the two schools of thought, but I don't believe that implies smaller fonts, and more information displayed on the general usage screens. These screens should remain clean and simple.

Others have suggested plug-ins for the extra information. I feel that would be appropriate.

[daphatty]

Pretty much most things are possible. The only things I'm ruling out are small video windows or animations.

Does this include graphical transitions? For example, transitions from page to page that include resizing of icons and/or task.png images?

I am happy to make additions to it though (new menu styles etc).

Horizontal menus!

I'm just waiting to see if a trend is emerges in what people want from the default skin, and if that requires new things, then I'll implement those things. To be honest though, I'm not seeing any trend. Everyone seems to want something different.

I must point out that your request for feedback was so broad that you are not likely to see any trends regardless of how much feedback we give. There are just too many varying opinions. At this point, IMH(umble)O, you have one of two choices; 1) implement all the additional functionality you can and let the skinners have at it, or 2) take what's already available and work with that.

[COLOR="Blue"]<steps on the opinion soapbox>
I feel that the single most important feature you could possibly implement is horizontal menu buttons. This feature WILL HAVE THE BIGGEST IMPACT on the skins that are created for GBPVR. Dottore's concept PSP style skin is easily the coolest idea I have seen thus far and you cannot deny that the design works. Those of us who own a PSP can attest to that.
</steps off the opinion soapbox>[/COLOR]

[daphatty]

....a bit like this:

Dottore - I realize this was only a concept idea but I'd like to build on it if you don't mind.

I think it would be really slick if, when accessing one of the menus from the main screen the skin would transition the task.png to the upper left corner of the screen. The menu system could then switch from a horizontal orientation to a vertical one. This idea would implement an image scaling function which is implied by the look of the concept main menu you created. Do you think you could come up with a rendition of this? (Or could I play around with the idea?)

[groover km]

Just my opinion and probably wrong, but I feel this thread has moved away from the original intent (and as I have no clue at all how to design a skin, I have no axe to grind):

This is for a new DEFAULT skin, people. Those that develop their own skins now, will do so in the future, and the community will continue to benefit. If the default skin stayed exactly the same, this would happen. This diversity and differing tastes is what keeps the community alive.

IMHO, however, it has nothing to do with a new default skin. Unless I am missing something, the point of the default skin is to provide functionality "out the box" for new users and those who don't want to poke around under the hood. Everything else - plugins, changing skins, web access - comes after.

When (potential) users are browsing around - as we all were at one point - looking at MCE, MP, Meedio, CTPVR, and who knows what else, it's the SCREENSHOTS that draw people in and encourage them to choose GBPVR over alternatives. More Users > More vibrant community > more contributions (intellectual, technical, financial) > More peer support....

That's why I think the default is the chance to provide SIMPLE user-friendly navigation, stability, a step away from MCE clones; the default does not need thousands of icons (less is more), poor colour combinations, me-too design, 'active desktop' backgrounds (couldn't think of a way to describe it), or any of the other things that I have seen suggested and discussed here.

This is for the DEFAULT. Be Simple. Be attractive. Just work.

<sorry guys, rant over, too much coffee!!>

[hvcpvr]

This is for a new DEFAULT skin, people. Those that develop their own skins now, will do so in the future, and the community will continue to benefit. If the default skin stayed exactly the same, this would happen. This diversity and differing tastes is what keeps the community alive.

That's why I think the default is the chance to provide SIMPLE user-friendly navigation, stability, a step away from MCE clones; the default does not need thousands of icons (less is more), poor colour combinations, me-too design, 'active desktop' backgrounds (couldn't think of a way to describe it), or any of the other things that I have seen suggested and discussed here.

This is for the DEFAULT. Be Simple. Be attractive. Just work.

<sorry guys, rant over, too much coffee!!>

You may be ranting but I think you are 100% right. The default skin should not be what skinners ultimately want to do with GBPVR. It should provide a reliable user interface and experience.

[sub]

Yeah, groover_km is correct.

The intention of this post was to replace the default skin with one that looks cooler than the current blue skin. I had hoped this thread would get people working and designing a new one, and coming up with cool unique graphics etc.

I was happy to make a few small tweaks if this will help make a cool skin, such as new composite image elements, or changes to the way the main menu works. I dont really want to get into some of things discussed here, such as replacing the skinning engine or entirely changing the way GB-PVR works. I just want a better default skin so new users get the best first impression we can give them.

Changing the way the main menu operates is ok, if helps give us a cool looking skin.

[Necro]

I've been trying to create a skin now for GBPVR and the Xaddons, as is obvious by all my posts. I think I can say what is hampering the ability to do this as of right now, in a few points.

- Certain items can't be customized. This alone can obliterate designing an easy to use interface that looks good.
- Transparency levels of everything needs to be skinnable.
- Certain items are linked to each other so if you change one things properties, something else changes.
- It's unclear if additional settings exist (i.e. named colors, moving search boxes, etc.) that aren't currently in skin.xml files for that particular app.
- It's unclear now where popups get there definitions from, if other skins are being used when certain data is shown in other plugins, etc. It needs to be cleared up so people CAN make a good skin that doesn't cause issues at the first update of some plugin, etc.
- Default items, such as button design, general text font, default transparency of popups, etc., should be in a 'master' skin file which then can be overridden by particular app skin files. This would allow for SERIOUS streamlining of skinning.


I think that my last point would help the most in making GBPVR overall more 'friendly'. It would basically mean that installing a plugin didnt require an entire new skin for it. It could grab the background, button 'colors', etc. from the general skin and that could be a base to go off of. Of course, it wouldn't work all the time but people would know what they are dealing with.

That, and add in some checks so that colors entered in without a capitalized first letter don't throw an error hehe. Don't know how many times thats thrown me off.

[hvcpvr]

I think that my last point would help the most in making GBPVR overall more 'friendly'. It would basically mean that installing a plugin didnt require an entire new skin for it. It could grab the background, button 'colors', etc. from the general skin and that could be a base to go off of. Of course, it wouldn't work all the time but people would know what they are dealing with.

Meedio and CTPVR have something like what you described. I just made a theme for CTPVR and all I had to create for it's weather plugin to work was a background. It some how grabs the buttons, font type & font colors for each theme. I tried making one for GBPVR, Media Portal & XLobby but it was too much work making an xml file plus individual folders and graphics for each screen. I commend those who stick it out and finish them.

[sub]

I think that my last point would help the most in making GBPVR overall more 'friendly'.

These dont make GB-PVR more 'friendly'. Instead, I think these make the job easier for people making their own skins. The average user that downloads and installs GB-PVR has no idea how much effort the guy that made the skin had to put in, and probably doesnt care. Of the 20000 odd downloads we get of each release of GB-PVR, there is only about a dozen people trying to make skins.

I'm aware that some areas offer more skinning ability than other areas. Its usually the older areas of the application which have the worst skinning - we used to do skins an entirely different way. As the need pops up to change these areas of the application, time permitting I usually try modernise the skinning aswell. Eventually we'll get the whole thing done.

Adding ultimately flexible skinning actually creates quite a lot of work, so sometimes the plugin developers and myself cut corners and hardcode some stuff to get the job quicker. We know this a no-no, and usually a slap on the wrist from the skinners gets us to go back and fix it up.

You've had a good look and are probably well aware of the limitations, now you just need work within them. Constructive feedback for improvements is always welcome, but you need to understand that changes to the skinning are way down the priority list behind functionality and reliability, so may not happen in a hurry.

[sub]

Meedio and CTPVR have something like what you described. I just made a theme for CTPVR and all I had to create for it's weather plugin to work was a background. It some how grabs the buttons, font type & font colors for each theme. I tried making one for GBPVR, Media Portal & XLobby but it was too much work making an xml file plus individual folders and graphics for each screen. I commend those who stick it out and finish them.

Why are you here?