First steps - looking for requirements and advice

[Ommina]

Hello all!

After spending more time than I care to admit looking at "Consumer Electronics" HDD PVR solutions, I've come to discover that the reason I'm having such trouble finding a unit that fills my needs is because it isn't out there.

While a liberating discovery in itself, it does leave me turning towards a PC based setup instead of units such as those by Toshiba and Pioneer.

I am, however, a little bit nervous about what I can expect from a PC system, and would like to beg the thoughts who have more experience with them than I do.

While I have a great raft of questions, I guess I'll start with the basics. I do this in an effort to avoid people running from the room screaming.

First - what kind of quality can I expect? I would guess this will vary with bitrates (at least, the Toshiba unit had an exciting selection of different quality selections, from "ok" to "vcrish" to "dvdish").

I installed GBPVR, and have explored it as much as I'm able not having a video capture card installed. The "high quality" setting shows a bit rate of 5500 kbits/second. So, uhm, :o , is that lots? Compared to, say, a VCR or DVD?

A quick google of "DVD bitrate" delivers an selection of bitrate calculators, so from this I conclude that there is no one number to end all numbers for DVD bitrates. How high, then, is 'high quality'?

Note: High Definition isn't part of my equation. Video source will be an svideo input.

Second - how stable is the system? It will be used by people with no patience for, or indeed understanding of, computer issues. To this end I've already decided that it will be a dedicated machine, with no other uses. Will it behave well?

Third - in reading through the documentation, I see much mention of the PVR350. Indeed, this manual page speaks as if it were the only option. Understanding that the manual is a work in progress, I'd like to clarify this. Are my choices for TV-out limited to the Hauppauge series? Or can I use another card?(This critter (pdf), for example, selected on the belief that a hardware MPEG2 decoder is a good thing.)

OK, three is enough. If there is any 'suggested reading' you feel would benefit me, please point me in the right direction. I'm not above doing what research I can, but I want to move carefully to ensure that what I'm getting will do what I need it to to.

Thank you very much for your time!

[A_Brass]

First - what kind of quality can I expect? I would guess this will vary with bitrates (at least, the Toshiba unit had an exciting selection of different quality selections, from "ok" to "vcrish" to "dvdish").!

I would say the above statement is accurate. Although broadcast tv is not DVD quality to begin with so you cant really expect DVD quality. GBPVR has three standard recording quality levels, plus 2 custom. You try different ones. I find Medium is about the same as my regular TV signal.

Second - how stable is the system? It will be used by people with no patience for, or indeed understanding of, computer issues. To this end I've already decided that it will be a dedicated machine, with no other uses. Will it behave well?

Stable, GBPVR, very. Over all stability depends on the system its running on. I use a older 1ghz AMD and it works great. My video card is old and slow but the system works very well considering the older hardware.

As far as useability. My wife can operate it. -- Nuff said. want more info search WAF in the forum (wife acceptance factor)

Third - in reading through the documentation, I see much mention of the PVR350.

I think if you ask Sub (the developer) he would tell you the PVR350 is not the best choice unless you need hardware decoding for some reason. The 350 has limits as far as the display goes and I dont think Sub is working on any new support or features for the 350. If your looking for the best solution most people will say the PVR150 or the ATI 550.

[sub]

I think if you ask Sub (the developer) he would tell you the PVR350 is not the best choice unless you need hardware decoding for some reason. The 350 has limits as far as the display goes and I dont think Sub is working on any new support or features for the 350. If your looking for the best solution most people will say the PVR150 or the ATI 550.

Correct.

We're actually talking about two separate things here, a capture device and display device. A PVR350 tries to combine these two but is not great at it, and you end up some serious limitations (no DVDs etc). You're better off using a separate capture device like PVR150 or ATI 550, and a regular video card with TV out for the display device. ATI or nVidia are the most common video card makes here. If you search the forums you'll find info on specific video card model numbers.

[groover km]

I installed GBPVR, and have explored it as much as I'm able not having a video capture card installed. The "high quality" setting shows a bit rate of 5500 kbits/second. So, uhm, :o , is that lots? Compared to, say, a VCR or DVD?

A quick google of "DVD bitrate" delivers an selection of bitrate calculators, so from this I conclude that there is no one number to end all numbers for DVD bitrates. How high, then, is 'high quality'?

Note: High Definition isn't part of my equation. Video source will be an svideo input.

A high quality of 5500kbits/sec is going to be on a par with a typical DVD; while the bitrate specification for DVD can go up to around 9000kb/sec, it's not necessary in a PVR in my opinion and will just lead to large file sizes. I use S-Video throughout the chain also, and my recordings are typically indistinguishable from the source channels (although this will depend on how you set up your card, luma/ chroma/ etc.)

Second - how stable is the system? It will be used by people with no patience for, or indeed understanding of, computer issues.

They must be related to my wife. Seriously, I think a dedicated PVR box is the way to go; more flexibility, less issues due to multi-tasking, etc. I agree that reliability is a critical consideration when looking at expanding home entertainment setup with a PC. I find that GBPVR is rock-solid, but in a lot of cases, issues are hardware/ network related.

Third - in reading through the documentation, I see much mention of the PVR350. Indeed, this manual page speaks as if it were the only option.

On the contrary, I believe that the 350 is no longer supported for GBPVR (too many issues). I have a PVR-150 and I believe a 500 is a good option as it has dual tuners, but I am reluctant to post a recommendation. If you are going to go with a tv-out graphics card though, hardware MPEG decoding should be considered essential.

As well as the wiki, you may want to just browse round this forum to get a feel, also checkout http://www.videohelp.com and http://www.byopvr.com

hope this helps and good luck!

[Ommina]

Thank you very much for your kind reply, you have done much to reduce my concerns already.

I would say the above statement is accurate. Although broadcast tv is not DVD quality to begin with so you cant really expect DVD quality. GBPVR has three standard recording quality levels, plus 2 custom. You try different ones. I find Medium is about the same as my regular TV signal.

This is encouraging. My principal concern was from some screenshots that I had seen that look, well, lets be honest, awful. Very fuzzy / unattractive. (Picture a VCR tape copied three times too many). Knowing that this is not 'typical' helps.

My input source will be satellite, via an svideo input, if this is important to know.

Presently, I've selected the Sapphire Theatrix with remote as my capture card of choice. Hardware encoding seems to be preferred, and I'm kind of hoping that I'll be able to sidestep the whole MUX thing too, since it claims to do the audio thing as it goes along.

Stable, GBPVR, very. Over all stability depends on the system its running on. I use a older 1ghz AMD and it works great. My video card is old and slow but the system works very well considering the older hardware.

This is good to know. I havn't looked too far into the computer components themselves, but it is nice to know that I don't need to look for leading edge just-released-last-week goodies.

Obviously I want something that is stable and snappy, but I see no advantage to having the CPU do little more than heat the living room.

I think if you ask Sub (the developer) he would tell you the PVR350 is not the best choice unless you need hardware decoding for some reason. The 350 has limits as far as the display goes and I dont think Sub is working on any new support or features for the 350. If your looking for the best solution most people will say the PVR150 or the ATI 550.

Well, no, I don't need hardware decoding as such. It just seemed like a good idea.

Is there a list of supported TV-Out cards? (I've looked! Honest!) The system will not have a monitor (or keyboard. or mouse. and I'm only grudgingly giving it power), so everything needs to go to the TV from the moment it starts.

Thanks again!

[-stattik-]

Video capture quality will differ with the quality of the input. If you have a clean signal, you shouldn't have any problems. The PVR 150 is highy recommended.

[David]

Is there a list of supported TV-Out cards? (I've looked! Honest!) The system will not have a monitor (or keyboard. or mouse. and I'm only grudgingly giving it power), so everything needs to go to the TV from the moment it starts.

Thanks again!

I have had limited experience with trying to control my computer via the TV. Not particularly fun. I do not have a monitor, keyboard or mouse attached to my dedicated GBPVR box. When I need to get in and do some work on the OS, I use the "Remote Desktop Connection" available under WinXP, remoting in from my regular workstation. I admit that I also schedule all my recordings via the web interface.

The only thing that keeps it from running rock solid forever is when I forget to clear room on the hard drive. I have it partitioned, so the result is that I get very small recording files, but the system happily runs along and attempts to record everything I ask it for. I am sure that there are automated solutions to this, but I'd rather delete things manually.

[stefan]

My input source will be satellite, via an svideo input, if this is important to know.

One thing you might have overlooked is that you need something to control your set top box. If your particular model of STB is supported by the pvr-150, that would be a great card to get. Otherwise you will need some other means to control the STB. One of the most widely used gadgets is the http://www.usbuirt.com. It works great with GBPVR.

[djtaylor]

I was in the same situation. I was fed up with missing programmes that I wanted due to either not enough tape, botched programming etc so looked at PVR's. I wanted something that "just worked", no messing around, worked every time. I *didn't* want to build a PVR (nor buy one) because I've been in I.T. long enough to have a total distrust of PC uptime.

My wife and I agreed that at the time, we didn't want to spend the money on a PVR, at least, not for the top of the range model I wanted.

I installed GBPVR and Showshifter on a PC with a tuner that I already and had a play around. I showed my wife, she liked the idea of what it would do and when I said, I could connect up a box in the lounge to the TV and not need a PC there, she liked that idea.

Next I bought a second tuner and an MVP and we liked that one. I then spent the next 200 quid fixing a PC that would keep locking up (about the same price as I would have spent on the stand alone box when you include the tuner and the MVP) but in fairness, that's nothing to do with GBPVR or Showshifter.

Shortly afterwards came the second MVP because wifey liked watching stuff downstairs, wanted to be able to pause and go upstairs to finish watching it in bed.

Yesterday I installed my third tuner.

I guess we're lucky in that we receive DVB-T broadcasts so the quality is excellent, it's the digital broadcast stream just saved to disk and there's no difference between broadcast and playback.

For features, ease of use, flexibility and support, it's second to none. My thanks to Sub and the developers of the plug-ins and skins and those that offer their help here.

Oh just one thing, it all went a bit pear shaped the other night. We'd had a disappointing night out but happy in the knowledge that our regular Saturday night programming was all being saved. Came to watch it on Sunday morning to find that early evening Saturday, the recording service had stalled and nothing had been saved. Oh well, never mind. It happens!

David.

[gEd]

Ommina
One of this issues that I frequently mention (or bang on about!) to people considering a new pvr pc for their living room, is that of noise.

A VCR or DVD player is virtually silent and a standard PC will sound like a hairdryer in comparison. To make a pc virtually silent takes carefull selection of products and costs more to achieve. check out quietpc.com for more info.

Noise is another reason why many people use an MVP instead, with the pc located elsewhere in the house. However, they do make it difficult/impossible to watch dvd's and divx files.

Reliability: The software is extreamly reliable, my pc less so. Most problems I encounter are usually caused by my messing about with things when I should just leave well alone...