HDHomerun, possible problem with GB-PVR TS Mux DS Filter and a bad PAT packet.

[lstepnio]

Sorry, I wont be adding support for external players, but I would appreciate feedback on what is weak about the built in playback so I can improve it.

I really hesitate saying anything that you might take a negative critisism as I think GB-PVR is a wonderful (if not easily the best) windows based PVR from a backend perspective. I've used many "mature" media media players in past including Media Player Classic, Windows Media Player, TVedia Media Player. I've finally settled into using Zoomplayer Professional, which I paid money for on my HTPC. I'm only saying this because I think developing a good media player is not an easy task. You've really written a solid PVR backend and I don't want you to get the wrong idea of what I'm saying. :cheers:


I'm hestiating saying anything about the PQ of your media player simply because I've seen other posts mentioning this and being dismissed as invalid as DirectShow handles the PQ which is true. I understand how DS works and have a very good understanding of the configuration of filters and I can say that I'm seeing issues using GB-PVR mediaplayer compared to Zoomplayer in terms of PQ. I'm assuming it's related to the renderer and/or possible the source filter in GB-PVR but I know I see an issue.

The GB-PVR overlay navigation interface also suffers and at times and isn't responsive or slow to respond and at times becomes unstable. I can replicate these issues on multiple machines using several playback filter combinations. These test machines are fresh installs (from images) both having moderns CPUs(C2D), with modern video interfaces 7600GS-7950GT with very careful attention to DS filter management and software/services management.

I think overall GB-PVR is a very basic media player feature and configuration wise compared to ZP. There are many features I use on a daily basis in ZP that the GB-PVR media players lacks, including A/B repeat, aspect ratio control(auto and manual), blanking(auto and manual), zoom, bookmarks, chapters, resuming from the location I left off just off the top of my head. I would suggest installing the free version of Zoomplayer (DVD playback is missing from the "free" version) and taking it for a spin so see what I'm comparing the GB-PVR media player to.

I still feel that you have written the best PVR available for windows so why not allow users as an option to leverage your great software against a media player in the same leage as GB-PVR is in the PVR catagory? This allows you to focus more time on the PVR with features like priority recording, etc? The wheel have already been invented. <shrug>

I'll also mention that I've always felt that fullscreen HTPC applications should be using vector based graphics to build the GUI interfaces. I've seen very few applications that handle scaling in a manner that is IMO is acceptable on a modern displays without having resolution specific skins which is rare for 1080p resoltution like I'm using. I know that one of the popular free "media center" software packages I've tested in the past has switching over to vector based on the to-do list. This might be something you should start considering as I feel this will provide the best visual presentation with any resolution. I'll also mention that I've experienced issues where text in GB-PVR is running outside the intended area. This quirk might of been a result of the DPI being increased inside of windows on my HTPC but it makes for a ugly presentation.

I don't mean to sound critical as I'm very happy with using GB the way I am today. I just really like the idea of having full control over everything and it's usally my primary deciding factore when choosing software aside from stability.

[wtg]

Me, I just want an external player option so I can add support for a file type that GB-PVR doesn't yet, like Google Player or QuickTime or whatever becomes popular tomorrow.

It would be nice not to be stuck with only files that have DirectShow filters, and I don't understand the objection to making an external player, or players, configurable. But then again, I appreciate the fact that it's sub's baby and he can do as he likes with it.

[sub]

I'm hestiating saying anything about the PQ of your media player simply because I've seen other posts mentioning this and being dismissed as invalid as DirectShow handles the PQ which is true. I understand how DS works and have a very good understanding of the configuration of filters and I can say that I'm seeing issues using GB-PVR mediaplayer compared to Zoomplayer in terms of PQ. I'm assuming it's related to the renderer and/or possible the source filter in GB-PVR but I know I see an issue.

The GB-PVR overlay navigation interface also suffers and at times and isn't responsive or slow to respond and at times becomes unstable. I can replicate these issues on multiple machines using several playback filter combinations. These test machines are fresh installs (from images) both having moderns CPUs(C2D), with modern video interfaces 7600GS-7950GT with very careful attention to DS filter management and software/services management.

Assuming you're using the same decoders and renderers, you should get exactly the same video picture quality with both GB-PVR and ZP.

When you do playback of a pre-existing file, using Overlay, VMR7, VMR9, then it doesnt use any GB-PVR components. When you using the VMR9 Custom or VMR9 Fullscreen Exclusive renderer, then it does use the new GB-PVR renderer introduced in v0.99.12, but otherwise all other playback components are the same as you'd use in GraphEdit or any other directshow based player.

Some people do get slightly better quality with the VMR7/VMR9 renderer by setting <VMRPreferYUVMixing>true</VMRPreferYUVMixing> in config.xml, which switches the VMR renderer in YUV mode, but this comes at the expense of losing all OSD graphics, which may be something ZP is doing if they dont have OSD graphics.

I think overall GB-PVR is a very basic media player feature and configuration wise compared to ZP. There are many features I use on a daily basis in ZP that the GB-PVR media players lacks, including A/B repeat, aspect ratio control(auto and manual), blanking(auto and manual), zoom, bookmarks, chapters, resuming from the location I left off just off the top of my head. I would suggest installing the free version of Zoomplayer (DVD playback is missing from the "free" version) and taking it for a spin so see what I'm comparing the GB-PVR media player to.

Ok, I'll look into some of this, and give ZP a spin when I get a chance. Some of these are already in there, though maybe not obvious to you - but this could just come down to what you are use to.

What is wrong with GB-PVR auto and manual aspect ratio control? or was this referring to DVDs? It doesnt work for DVD playback in the current release, but does for the next release. You should already get full auto/manual aspect ratio control for MPEG/AVI video playback. I acknowledge that aspect ratio control is a bit better in GB-PVR with the VMR renderers than it is for the Overlay renderer.

What is blanking?

Resuming playback should happen for both DVDs and videos assuming you've got the 'prompt for resume' setting enabled.

You can type a chapter number and press enter to jump to that chapter during DVD playback. You can use the skip keys to jump chapters if this setting is enabled in the config app (otherwise does the minute based skipping to be consistent with the rest of video playback).

I still feel that you have written the best PVR available for windows so why not allow users as an option to leverage your great software against a media player in the same leage as GB-PVR is in the PVR catagory? This allows you to focus more time on the PVR with features like priority recording, etc? The wheel have already been invented. <shrug>

I can understand why you want me to do this, but sorry I wont be. I feel pretty strongly about wanting GB-PVR to do its own playback. I'm not interested in GB-PVR just being a recording backend.

Also, external players are of limited use since they can only be used in some situations. They're no good for live tv etc, which requires high levels of integration - feeding data around all sorts of stuff (digital signal management, teletext, DVB subtitles, auto PID mapping, multidec support etc). They also preclude the use of video plugins etc, for example bring up the tv guide and scheduling a recording while in the middle of playing a video, show reminders etc

(BTW, you can adjust the priority of recordings in the current release, using the FF/RW buttons on Reoccuring list in the Recordings screen. These keys move recordings up/down in the list. Top of the list has the highest priority)

I'll also mention that I've always felt that fullscreen HTPC applications should be using vector based graphics to build the GUI interfaces. I've seen very few applications that handle scaling in a manner that is IMO is acceptable on a modern displays without having resolution specific skins which is rare for 1080p resoltution like I'm using. I know that one of the popular free "media center" software packages I've tested in the past has switching over to vector based on the to-do list. This might be something you should start considering as I feel this will provide the best visual presentation with any resolution. I'll also mention that I've experienced issues where text in GB-PVR is running outside the intended area. This quirk might of been a result of the DPI being increased inside of windows on my HTPC but it makes for a ugly presentation.

Yes, I recognise the shortcomings in the way GB-PVR does its UI, and it is something I do hope to change in the future. Rewriting large amounts of stuff quickly probably wont happen though, given I'm only one developer. A lot of the shortcomings in this area relates to technologies that were available 3 - 4 years ago when I started GB-PVR.

When the project started, it was really just intended to be for my own use to view on the TV out of my PVR350. If I'd spent a huge amount of time focusing on building a really great UI system in those early days, GB-PVR would probably never have got anywhere. Instead I opted to spend my time across the breadth of the application, not over-commiting a huge amount of time in any one area. Before long I had a pretty sweet, albeit simple application, giving tv guide and the ability to schedule recordings - which was all I was initially aiming for. Back then I would never have thought that GB-PVR would still exist today, and would support DVB and ATSC HDTV etc.

There has also been a lot of changes in technology over the course of this project. There were no good vector based options for UIs back then. When I started the project, Microsoft were pushing GDI+ hard and making a lot of noise about how hardware acelleration of GDI+ would be available very soon, with video card drivers about to move towards GDI+ acelleration. Unfortunately this was a wrong horse to back, and year or so later they changed tack, and now GDI+ is sort of a dead (and slow) technology.

Giving it a face lift is something I'd like to do, but also not easy to retrofit.

I don't mean to sound critical as I'm very happy with using GB the way I am today. I just really like the idea of having full control over everything and it's usally my primary deciding factore when choosing software aside from stability.

No worries, I can take criticism.

[lstepnio]

I'm using VMR9 Custom, VMR9 seems to have a bug in GB which is why I assume you created the VMR9 Custom which doesn't suffer from the issue. I'm not a big fan os VM9 FSE mode, on rare occasion I have tearing occurances after a ff/rw but a simple pause/unpause clears it up. I'm looking forward to the new renderer in Vista that resolves the tearing issue without having to resort to FSE mode but it hasn't been a big issue for me.

That's strange what you're saying about the YUV Mixing option. This setting doesn't have any impact on the OSD interface in ZP. I have this disabled currently but with a previous version of CoreAVC decoder I needed to have it enabled. It sounds like there might be a way around the OSD issue. You're not confusing this with the FSE mode not playing nice OSD?

I don't use LiveTV, the rare occasion I watch live television my STB. You could have LiveTV use the internal GB player. You're right about the extra features being difficult with an external player however having options is what makes a HTPC product great, IMO. If you look at "good" HTPC software products they all have one thing in common, giving the users options.

Blanking is used for when the black bars aren't "really" black you can "blank" this area out with a true black. This is a great feature for a projector but I'm still using it with my DLP.

[sub]

I'm using VMR9 Custom, VMR9 seems to have a bug in GB which is why I assume you created the VMR9 Custom which doesn't suffer from the issue.

What is the bug?

The primary reason for the existance of the VMR9 Custom renderer is so that I could update the OSD while the video is paused, or not playing. The regular VMR9 renderer can only update the OSD when video frames are being presented. I really needed to be able to update the video OSD to say things like 'video signal lost' etc with digital devices.

That's strange what you're saying about the YUV Mixing option. This setting doesn't have any impact on the OSD interface in ZP. I have this disabled currently but with a previous version of CoreAVC decoder I needed to have it enabled. It sounds like there might be a way around the OSD issue. You're not confusing this with the FSE mode not playing nice OSD?

I dont know much about ZP, so not sure how it does things, but when you're in YUV mode, you're not able to do the IVMRMixerBitmap9 interface that is normally used for doing nice alpha blended OSDs. ZP maybe using small odd shaped windows sitting in front of the video to show their OSD? GB-PVR's OSD us more integrated with the video, allowing for the OSD to be alpha blended with the video etc.

Given you comment about FSE mode not playing nicely with their OSD, I'm guessing they do that window OSD mechanism, since that would likely have problems with FSE.

You're right about the extra features being difficult with an external player however having options is what makes a HTPC product great, IMO. If you look at "good" HTPC software products they all have one thing in common, giving the users options

I guess it depends what specific "option" an individual wants though. Regardless of what app you're talking about, there are always some things that cant be changed. You make it sounds like GB-PVR is lacking on the 'flexibility' front, because it doesnt give the one option you want. Usually I'm hearing users raving about the flexibility and options they get with GB-PVR (plugins, easy hooks for users to do post-processing/parallel-process, adding custom recording conversions, ability to define custom aspect ratios, extensibility) - see the hundreds of settings in config.xml. I do understand you comment though, and respect your view.

[lstepnio]

When using VMR9 with LiveTV the video is displayed in the upper half of the screen and rest is filled with garbage. I recall it cleared up once after a few moments but returned when the channel was changed. This doesn't seem to happen when playing back recorded shows. The issue doesn't happen with the VMR9 Custom Renderer. I assumed this was a known issue and I could of sworn I've seen this mentioned on the forums. Let me know if you want any additional info, I'll be happy to provide any specific details.

I'm pretty sure you are right about the window sitting in front of the video in ZP.

You're totally right that GB is one of the more flexible PVR application. I didn't mean to infer in any way that it wasn't flexible or "good". Just saying the more flexible the better. :cheers:

[sub]

When using VMR9 with LiveTV the video is displayed in the upper half of the screen and rest is filled with garbage. I recall it cleared up once after a few moments but returned when the channel was changed. This doesn't seem to happen when playing back recorded shows. The issue doesn't happen with the VMR9 Custom Renderer. I assumed this was a known issue and I could of sworn I've seen this mentioned on the forums. Let me know if you want any additional info, I'll be happy to provide any specific details.

This is an nvidia driver bug, and affects quite a few apps (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=15184&st=0). The bug occurs in any app using the VMR renderer, with hardware accelleration is enabled, and IVMRMixerControl9->SetOutputRect() is called with a rect other than 0,0,1,1. The area of the screen that should end up showing the video is filled with garbage, with the exception of the top left corner which displays a small version of the video.

The work-arounds are to use old nvidia drivers, or disable hardware acceleration, or use the VMR9 Custom or VMR9 FSE video renderers, or use the 'full' aspect ratio.

[sub]

I'm not at home for a couple of days, so cant download and check your .ts file.

What makes you think its got two audio pids?