ATSC 3.0 support - HDHomeRun Flex 4K

[DSperber]

Now the next issue is CAN I PLAY ATSC 3.0 PROGRAMS using NextPVR v5? And the answer simply is: NO. Absolutely no audio and absolutely no video.
I don't think that the answer is quite as simple as your "NO". With NextPVR there are 2 components: the recording engine and the client/playback. For digital broadcasts, the recording engine simply writes the digital stream to disk. The should work just fine with the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts. For playback, the capability is dependent upon the capabilities of the client. If you use a client which supports direct play (i.e. doesn't require transcoding) of the ATSC 3.0 HEVC and AC4 streams, then these recordings should play OK. I know that Martin has been successful at playing some of these via the uidroid client on at least a few of the Android players like the TiVo Stream 4K and Amazon Firestick 4K Max.

I am referring to NextPVR (desktop app) itself being used as the "playback client", i.e. when Live TV is presented. Or, when TV Guide is presented and you double-click on a Guide cell and select "watch".

It is unable to produce either audio or video when Live TV is attempted for an ATSC 3.0 channel. You just get "...please wait..."

[BrettB]

Also, in the SiliconDust Firmware Changelog, it lists where SiliconDust made this (SiliconDust specific) change to add the 100:

Release 20210210/20210210a:
HDHR5-4K: Rollup of ATSC 3.0 improvements and fixes.
HDHR5-4K: Shift ATSC 3.0 channels to 100+ range to avoid conflict with ATSC 1.0 channels.
US models: Faster OTA channel scan.
CC models: Faster channel scan on cable systems with SDV (with or without tuning resolver connected).
HDVR/HHDD models: Performance and memory optimization storing recordings to disk.
All models: improvements to diagnostic logging.

[mvallevand]

I already replied on that with an extra tuner you can record ATSC 3 and play them with transcoded audio on any NextPVR client.

Uidroid on Android which has the desktop UI will play them as is.  If your Android device has ac4 support it will play directly otherwise the client transcoded.

The Roku Ultra client also will play them directly from NextPVR

Martin

[BrettB]

I am referring to NextPVR (desktop app) itself being used as the "playback client", i.e. when Live TV is presented. Or, when TV Guide is presented and you double-click on a Guide cell and select "watch".

It is unable to produce either audio or video when Live TV is attempted for an ATSC 3.0 channel. You just get "...please wait..."

That is likely correct. But understand that the "NextPVR (desktop app)" is a completely different program from the NextPVR server. And there are NextPVR clients that can play the ATSC 3.0 recordings now.

[sub]

The NextPVR server will have no problem recording those stations. Playing them back is a different issue though.

I would have expected the NextPVR desktop app to give you video, assuming you have an HEVC decoder selected. You will not get AC4 audio though. Hopefully AC4 capable audio decoders start to appear in the near future. (like hopefully LAV is updated for AC4 support)

As they guys have said, at this stage your options are either:
1) use a NextPVR client on a device device that can play AC4 natively (like Roku Ultra etc)
2) or instead (of NextPVR directly accessing the stream from the HDHR) use an 'extra' to convert the audio on it's way into NextPVR, and the stream will then be available to all client types

The major stumbling block is that very few software components support AC4 at this stage. Hopefully that'll change over the next few months.

[DSperber]

I would have expected the NextPVR desktop app to give you video, assuming you have an HEVC decoder selected. You will not get AC4 audio though. Hopefully AC4 capable audio decoders start to appear in the near future. (like hopefully LAV is updated for AC4 support)

Focusing only on the HEVC video issue for the moment, I actually did purchase the "HEVC Video Extensions" product ($0.99) from the MS Store. This presumably installed the HEVC codec which is not delivered with retail Win10. This missing HEVC codec was complained about by the HDHR app itself when I first tried to play an ATSC 3.0 channel, popping up the mention of the "solution" (not free) being available from the MS store. The popup even provided a link that went directly to the MS store for that item.

And once it was purchased and installed, now sure enough HDHR app was able to produce onscreen video from the HEVC stream content. And clearly HDHR app can also handle the AC-4 audio without a problem, since I always had sound. So it was just the HEVC video which needed the missing codec.

Well, presumably that HEVC codec is now installed on my Win10 since HDHR app no longer has a problem playing ATSC 3.0 channels. But NextPVR does not seem to recognize the now installed HEVC codec. When I go to Settings -> Decoders -> HEVC video, the dropdown list does not offer an item for me to choose (as it does for the other decoders itemized that have non-empty dropdown lists to select from).



So there is no HEVC codec named in the "decoders" settings. Hence no playability for ATSC 3.0 channels.

Is there something else that I need to do somewhere? Again, the "HVEC Video Extensions" from MS Store product is installed, and solved the HDHR app complaint about the missing HVEC codec.

[mvallevand]

NextPVR.exe only uses 32 bit decoders. The free LAV 32 decoder will work with HEVC.

Martin

[sub]

The LAV decoders from https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFilters...taller.exe should give you an HEVC decoder option. I don’t think I’ve tried to Microsoft decoder for this.

Regardless though - this path is a dead end. You won’t get audio. See earlier comments for your current options.

[DSperber]

The Roku Ultra client also will play them directly from NextPVR

Martin

I had searched unsuccessfully for the Roku client for NextPVR. I only just discovered that there is a dedicated Roku sub-forum here, with your posted information about how to enable the channel to be added to my Roku desktop.

I've now done that, and sure enough I now have the NextPVR app on my Roku. But it doesn't seem to do much when I open it. I think I've missed something in the installation and setup of NextPVR v5 pertaining to the "server".

It shows "NextPVR... loading", and then a message box with ah "i" message:  Configure NextPVR Server

Below that are items Direct Play: true, Return to 192.168.1.26 (which is my Win10 machine), scan local network, manual entry, and exit.

I'm thinking that somehow NextPVR Server is either (a) not running at all, or (b) not configured or set up properly. Obviously I've missed something and I need some directions.

When I look in Task Manager, NextPVRServer.exe is definitely running.

(Note that I also have NextPVR v4 installed and running on the same machine, but that should be irrelevant, right?)

Please push me in the right direction to "configure NextPVR Server" so that the Roku app can find it.

Many thanks for your help and guidance.

[DSperber]

Ok. I've managed to explore and experiment my way into success.

In the absence of any documentation that was instantly provided in one central list somewhere (at least not that I saw over my travels on this forum over the past three days), I decided to explore an play around a bit in NextPVR, just to see if it made any difference.

So apparently I was very much in need of doing something in the Settings -> Access area. I went ahead and changed the current password to a new password and pushed the "update login" button. That seemed to take.

Then I went ahead and changed the PIN number from whatever it was (and I'm guessing it was 0000, but there's no "eye" button to allow us to actually see what is there but displayed as ****) to something new. Anyway, I changed it to something new, looked around for an "update PIN" button which was not present. So I just pressed ENTER. That seemed to absorb my entry and refresh the screen. I hoped that meant my PIN update was successfully changed.

Then there is the "Remote Access" section, talking about "if you are intending to access NextPVR over the internet...". Well, does that mean only from outside in the world, outside of my home LAN network? Or does that include devices like Roku within my own home LAN? I would think of that as my "network", not really of the "internet" which kind of suggests outside external access. Anyway, it was un-checked so I went ahead and checked it, now theoretically allowing remote access. Again, no push-button for "save" but I pushed ENTER and again the page refreshed. And the item was still checked so that looked good.

Thinking this was what was required for the "configure NextPVR Server" request from the Roku app, I tried opening it again. Still no dice.

Thinking maybe it was my BitDefender Firewall that might be blocking the remote access I temporarily disabled Firewall. I had previously added the specified TCP/8089 and UDP/5353 exception rules, along with the program exception, but this was probably the first time that was tested. So just in case I'd done something wrong here I temporarily disabled it and re-tried launching the Roku app. Still no dice.

Then I decided to explore the other items on the Roku app message, to see what they meant and whether or not one of them would lead to success. It was when I got to the "manual entry" item and looked at it that the likely source of my problem had been found. the pre-populated default IP address is http://192.168.1.26:8866*0000. Once again in the absence of any documentation to guide me, it was immediately obvious that the default 8866 port number was incorrect.

Now as I had mentioned earlier, I am also running NextPVR v4 on the same machine which utilizes port 8866. So I had to change that port number value in config.xml, which I changed to 8867. My GUESS here was that the "manual entry" string clearly at least must be needed to change to 8867.

And next, it was not obvious what that *0000 meant. But since 0000 was for characters long, and the original PIN number on the Access screen was also for **** (probably 0000 under the covers, I guessed), I decided to take a complete flyer of a guess and change the 0000 to the new PIN value I'd previously set.

And, amazingly, when I now pushed OK to complete/save the change of that manual entry string, sure enough the Roku UI for NextPVR finally opened!! Unbelievable that I'd managed to guess my way through all that was actually required. Sure wish there was a simple instruction list I could have just followed. Would have avoided a lot of time and total guesswork.

Anyway I was still operating with BitDefender Firewall temporarily disabled and I was still unsure whether my Firewall rules coding was correct or not. So I re-enabled it, closed the Roku app and the re-launched it. And quite happily I saw that the app opened without a hiccup, telling me that my Firewall rules coding was as required. That question was now answered.

So, I'm now operational with the Roku app for NextPVR UI. I don't know how I would get back into its "settings", in case I had to or wanted to change anything (such as the PIN number for the remote connection, or the PORT number back to 8866 if I decided to remove v4 from my system, etc.). How does one get back to that "manual entry" dialog once the app is operating?

First test is with a Roku Ultra 2020 (4800), going to an LG OLED C7 (4K) HDTV. So the Roku output is set to up-convert to 2160p for delivery to the TV.

And now for the feedback, as to how well the app works or not. And does it handle the audio/video of the ATSC 3.0 channels successfully?

(1) Normal ATSC 1.0 channels seems to play correctly, both audio and video. It takes probably 20-30 seconds to change channels and for audio/video to actually begin. But once play starts it looks great... especially the 1080p source content on the ATSC 3.0 channels. I must say, I was watching a Kelly Clarkson special on NBC4-LA (which is 1080i ATSC 1.0) and it was absolutely stunning. Same with the 1080p content from ATSC 3.0. Truly stunning getting displayed at 2160p by the Roku.

(2) There seems to be a small "creeping audio lip-sync delay" problem, with video ahead of audio. Not giant, but definitely there. Seems to be ok for the beginning of play, but shortly thereafer the lip-sync issue starts. It doesn't "grow indefinitely" but just remains at the "steady state" lag.  And then it magically "repairs itself" and all is good, with no lag.  I will try again on two other Roku/HDTV setups I have around the house just to see if it's unique to the one configuration I'm initially using. So more data to gather on this lip-sync story.

(3) ATSC 3.0 channels play video perfectly. And look gorgeous. However there is ZERO AUDIO. I have all my Roku set to pass through audio, rather than transcode to something else. The output is going through my AVR and sound system, so I don't know if it's actually my AVR that is not supporting the bitstream. Again, I will play around some more with my other Roku/HDTV setups (one of which is another 4800/4K setup and the other is an older 4670/FHD setup) to see how they work, or if I get AC-4 sound by changing the audio settings on the Roku.

(4) The NextPVR desktop app running on Win10 actually responds to the standard MCE remote (as virtually all DVR apps I've played with do), so almost anything you are used to doing with WMC via the remote you can also do with NextPVR!  So for example, even though the NextPVR window does not offer a red REC button to manually initiate a suddenly started recording of a live TV program being watched, if you push the red REC button on the MEC remote sure enough RECORDING STARTS!!  It would be nice if the Roku remote could afford at least a few special functions, but alas there are very few buttons on the Roku remote and they are almost all always spoken for. However I really would have expected the REW, FF, left-arrow and right-arrow navigation buttons on the remote to perform as expected but not quite. The REW and FF buttons never work. And the left-arrow and right-arrow buttons only work during playback of recorded programs. They don't work when playing a Live TV program.

(5) Is there any way to select a particular audio track, either using the NextPVR desktop app or the Roku client?


So overall I'd say this is fabulous!  Given this level of success with the Roku client I will explore the ATV4K client and the Android client. Maybe they will do better with AC-4 audio.

Great work!  Thank you for what probably was a monster effort.