Too many skins, too many options, too many plugins...

[MixMan]

That sounds good Jeff.
How about you Reven, will you have BlueMCE2 versions of your upcoming plugins?

[Old Dog]

Ah, yes, but are you using xml for popup backgrounds and selectors?

Of course, isn't that nice, I can transition at my own pace. As I said, the AM skinning system supports any degree of XML/Image based graphics.

Can you drop in any plugin and have it look close to the rest of the skin without any editing of that xml file?

Since it's based on Blue, it is probably the best shot possible. BTW, I'm not sure I understand this concept.

Would an image based standard speed up skin development and support for the dozens you don't have? If you wanted purple "popup backgrounds" would you have to edit dozens of files? Would you rather just color an image instead?

You know I would take the image approach. This comment is just going over my head.

AM support (minus se.png) is by defualt, built into this idea. AM could even be extended to handle on the fly changing of these other elements as well!

Could the idea be extended to include "se.png"?

[sub]

This means Subs must be in the discussion.... or ?

Sorry, I hadnt actually been reading this thread. I'm on weekend early morning baby sitting duties at the moment, so I'm only half with you. I'll have another read through the thread later this morning and try to provide some comments.

[Old Dog]

I'm starting to get confused by all this banter. Think I'll take a break.

[Fatman_do]

Could the idea be extended to include "se.png"?

If it is AM SkinEffects se.png or BaseSkin Background_Mask.png or something completely different is an option right now. Does this need to be standard, probably not. I am not sold on these Effects/Masks being used for list displays. If all they do is add graphical depth, maybe it is best they be left out to be added by the skinner.

Old dog, here is the concept since I think I am talking past you here. (subject to change at the drop of the hat)

Take BlueMCE2 here as the model (ignore names for images right now, I think they can be better).

If I was a new skinner that wanted to develop an image based skin, I could take BlueMCE2 and change images with my own custom creations and have a new skin. I could tweak layouts and such, but the main graphical aspects are already done for me in all plugins. Background, list boxes, popups, selectors, ect. are sized correctly and in a logical place.

Any new plugin that comes along that uses this same image naming convention will also have all the graphical aspects done for me. I just have to re-arrange the furniture and put some pictures on the wall if I want. (Bad analogy?)

With a combination of baseskin.xml and standard images, skin development time should improve.

Tipstir is in effect doing this, and has been, for some time now with his skins. That is why he can spit out all new layouts and images in such a blinding pace.

[MixMan]

Have a look at the Baseskin.xml in a ThemePack and you will see how much text defenitions I have moved from the skin files into the baseskin.xml.
When I make the BaseSkinHD it will be twice as much in the baseskin.xml, so the Thempacks will be compatible as possible with low res BaseSkin and plugins.
That why I call the skin BaseSkin, because the usage of the baseskin.xml possibilities to change styles in all sub skins.

[Old Dog]

Just a bit at a time.

If it is AM SkinEffects se.png or BaseSkin Background_Mask.png or something completely different is an option right now. Does this need to be standard, probably not. I am not sold on these Effects/Masks being used for list displays. If all they do is add graphical depth, maybe it is best they be left out to be added by the skinner.

One of the desired goals was the ability to change skins on the fly.

In an AM skin, the se.png files combined with the XML files define the character of the skin. Changing the se.png files changes the character of the skin. For example, changing Plain Jane's se.png files from the Groove set to the Rosewood set changes Jane character to such a great extent that it is almost indistinguishable from changing skins via Config.exe.

This is why you want se.png files.

[Fatman_do]

Just a bit at a time.



One of the desired goals was the ability to change skins on the fly.

In an AM skin, the se.png files combined with the XML files define the character of the skin. Changing the se.png files changes the character of the skin. For example, changing Plain Jane's se.png files from the Groove set to the Rosewood set changes Jane character to such a great extent that it is almost indistinguishable from changing skins via Config.exe.

This is why you want se.png files.

I understand that. I have no problem myself with that. I actually support the idea of some sort of "mask/effect" with se.png being the preferred method so AM can further tweak a skin design. I just don't know if others are on the same bandwagon.

[Fatman_do]

I am biased here, but I prefer the BaseSkin naming convention over BlueMCE2. I am sure my proposal will FUBAR all current skins equally.

I like the breakup of Group_Name.png

I would simplify it even further.

Only use (remember plugins only):
Background.jpg
se.png (optional here for now, empty image by default)

Button_Normal.png
Button_Selected.png

(no other buttons are needed for a standard are there?)

List_Item_Selected.png
List_Item_Normal.png
List_Item_Active.png

List_Detail_Selected.png
List_Detail_Normal.png
List_Detail_Active.png

(just to add a similar Group_Name_State.png method)

List Icons are usually unique, but optional descriptive second images can be added to that composite image:
List_Icon_Selected.png
List_Icon_Normal.png


List_Background.png

(just to be more descriptive instead of ListView.png)

Popup_Background.png

(with variants maybe for different aspect ratios and scaling problems)
Popup_Background_Small.png
Popup_Background_Big.png
Popup_Background_Wide.png

Left.png, Right.png, Up.png, Down.png (or More_Left.png ect.)
Folder.png

This shouldn't break any exsisting plugin. Any other images are skin/plugin unique?

These could be in a Resources, Image, or Skin's "root" directory.

Being in the skin's root does not break Appearance Manager functionality so I would favor that over any other idea (buttons and background images are changed at this directory).

A simple search/replace application (I have one) that can change many files automagically can trim "..\resources\image.png" to "..\image.png" with one click.

Any comments? (ducks, covers ears, and turns around).

[MixMan]

I think most skinner are looking for an harmonic or appealing combination of colors, shapes and "spaces". It is a little bit like being a painter, trying out different combinations. When a satiesfying "combination" is found, the need to make more variations with backgrounds and buttons don't really exist.
I have never felt like i should do 5 more buttons in different colors or 5 more backgrounds for the same design.
I think Old Dogs AM concept with overlays is technically very smart, but it really don't apply to me, even though I have almost the same possibility to use overlays in the BaseSkin. I have just used it once.