nDroid v1.2.x (Beta) support thread

[BrettB]

Previous discussions about wi-fi/3G bear thinking about. Its not quite that simple.
If I have a home wifi and an office wifi, the previous idea falls over.
I love the idea of being able to set up my home system and get to it over the Internet.

Suggestion: alternate local/remote addresses, selected by button or such. This means even if the office and home networks share IP address (pretty common, I would think), it would still ignore the office machine that happens to have the same address as my home server, and use the "other" address. To be even smarter, it could check if its on the same network as the server, and default to "remote" if not.

I wouldn't be opposed to having an override button or similar mechanism. But, personally, I would want it to work automatically. And since (I'm pretty sure) most users would have the control to change at least their home LAN IP network range if it happened to conflict with a work IP network range, I think that the method of deciding upon which server IP address to use (or at least to default to) could be very effective at making the process automatic.

[BrettB]

- I'd like to tap the Channel text and not just the icon to change stations
- I don't use channel icons so I'd prefer a nicer generic icon
- One test channel icon (jpg) didn't display anything.
- future days show from the preceding show the day before. It's odd seeing some days start at 9:30pm
- Channels names for selection are useless I don't know the call-letters at all just the channel number.
- However for premium channels like HBO I'd want the name so I guess and want name an number
- I'd prefer channels by numbers in columns and not snaked (which sub might find contradictory because I argued against this for icon view) but that might be because I am counting to find which one is channel 13

Overall I was very impressed until I gave it to my wife. She made some very valid points. We watch and record looking at the EPG but we really don't know what channel most things are on after we select them scrolling through 8 channels at once for the evening. We know we record the Good Wife on Tuesdays at 10h but we don't know what number or network it is on. To use this it was funny watching her go to the EPG on the TV to get the channel name to select to load in nDroid.

Martin,

I particularly like the comment about your wife and the EPG on the TV.

As far as functionality for channels goes, I am almost the opposite of Martin. I don't use channel numbers at all except for getting the order of channels in the EPG. So for me, the logo is the most useful piece. (Although for a channel listing, it could probably a little smaller.) I think that depending upon the situation (cable, OTA, satellite, etc.) the number, the name, and/or the logo would be the most useful. So I'm thinking that the most ideal situation would be to have include/exclude configuration options for each of those 3 elements of a channel. Currently this would apply to the channel listing page. But in the future (hopefully) it would also apply to the EPG display by time slot with all channels and shows listed.

[bgowland]

The watch video link is on this page http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/di..._scheduler maybe your browser will handle this?

I use Chrome and it didn't like the rtmp - I can connect with this one but it buffers 5 seconds, plays 2, and so on. I'll try again later perhaps the server is busy.

I wouldn't be opposed to having an override button or similar mechanism. But, personally, I would want it to work automatically. And since (I'm pretty sure) most users would have the control to change at least their home LAN IP network range if it happened to conflict with a work IP network range, I think that the method of deciding upon which server IP address to use (or at least to default to) could be very effective at making the process automatic.

I hadn't decided how I was going to handle networking as it's still early days.

One thing I will say though is that Android is (rightly) very strict WRT what can and can't be done with software. Although I can detect network state (which interfaces are enabled/disabled, some connection details etc) I can't use software to enable/disable any interfaces automatically. More than that, wi-fi will normally take priority even if both wi-fi and mobile interfaces are enabled. I currently have an open question on a programmers' Q&A site about bypassing wi-fi in this sort of scenario but I can hear the wind whistling and see the tumbleweeds rolling past even as I type this.

I'll see what can be done - for the moment I'm looking at tidying/enhancing the UI plus a few other issues.

Cheers,
Brian

[mvallevand]

What I really wanted you to see was this. For remote recording I'd probably use it most, especially if I am doing this because the EPG has changed and something I record has ben postponed or moved. Also I may want to capture a news or sporting event that isn't going to be in the guide that I have data for.

Martin

[BrettB]

One thing I will say though is that Android is (rightly) very strict WRT what can and can't be done with software. Although I can detect network state (which interfaces are enabled/disabled, some connection details etc) I can't use software to enable/disable any interfaces automatically. More than that, wi-fi will normally take priority even if both wi-fi and mobile interfaces are enabled. I currently have an open question on a programmers' Q&A site about bypassing wi-fi in this sort of scenario but I can hear the wind whistling and see the tumbleweeds rolling past even as I type this.

Hey, Brian.

Yeah, I know the networking thing isn't a high priority. Just something to be thinking about for the future. Also, just to be clear, we weren't talking about trying to bypass wi-fi or to enable/disable anything. All we were talking about was deciding which of 2 IP address nDroid should use to connect to the npvr server. For example, here's the scenerio:

npvr server/nDroidService is on home LAN at IP address 192.168.100.10.
Home LAN is connected to the Internet via some ISP and uses DynDNS to map npvr.dyndns.net to its dynamic IP address currently assigned by the ISP.

Then you would configure nDroid with a Server LAN IP of "192.168.100.10" and a Server WAN IP of "npvr.dyndns.net".
When nDroid was launched, it would check to see if the wi-fi interface was connected and had an IP address. Let's say that it is and has address 192.168.100.101/24. Since the phone's IP address is on the same IP network (192.168.100.) as the configured Server LAN IP address, nDroid would use 192.168.100.10 for its connection to the server. If the wi-fi interface isn't connected or the wi-fi IP address is not on the same LAN IP network, then nDroid would use the configured Server WAN IP address ("npvr.dyndns.net") for its connection to the server. The phone would still do all the networking and would route via wi-fi or mobile interface just like normal. If I'm at a public wi-fi hotspot with address 192.168.1.215, the phone would still use the preference for the wi-fi connection to get to my npvr.dyndns.net server address.

[bgowland]

What I really wanted you to see was this.

I think I'd just got to that point in the video when it sat an buffered continuously and I gave up. I will try again later as it's always useful to get ideas. Implementing manual record will be quite straight-forward - I've put it on the todo list.

Also, just to be clear, we weren't talking about trying to bypass wi-fi or to enable/disable anything.

But are you sure about that?

The way Android works is that even if you have both wi-fi and mobile internet enabled in your device settings, if the wi-fi interface has an established connection, the mobile net interface will sit in a disconnected/dormant state.

Now suppose you're in your workplace and connected to the office WLAN - I can detect that the network IP address / SSID isn't the same as your home network. At this point, I choose to use npvr.dyndns.net instead of the numeric address, but it doesn't matter because Android will simply use the currently active network (wi-fi). My point is that using a DNS name won't affect Android's choice of which interface it uses (DNS names are valid on LANs/WLANs after all) so unless I can 'wake' the mobile interface and bind to it directly as my choice of routing the request, simply switching from a private IP address to a public DNS name won't make a difference.

[BrettB]

But are you sure about that?

The way Android works is that even if you have both wi-fi and mobile internet enabled in your device settings, if the wi-fi interface has an established connection, the mobile net interface will sit in a disconnected/dormant state.

Now suppose you're in your workplace and connected to the office WLAN - I can detect that the network IP address / SSID isn't the same as your home network. At this point, I choose to use npvr.dyndns.net instead of the numeric address, but it doesn't matter because Android will simply use the currently active network (wi-fi). My point is that using a DNS name won't affect Android's choice of which interface it uses (DNS names are valid on LANs/WLANs after all) so unless I can 'wake' the mobile interface and bind to it directly as my choice of routing the request, simply switching from a private IP address to a public DNS name won't make a difference.

Brian,

In your example, the connection from work would go from the phone via wi-fi to the work LAN, then out the work Internet connection to the Internet, then to my home LAN via my home ISP connection. So the mobile net interface still wouldn't be needed/used.

After thinking about it some more, I like you idea of using the SSID for determining which server address to use. That method takes care of the problem where the same LAN network range is being used in multiple places (i.e. at home and at work). Plus, it also takes care of the situation where the phone and server are both on the same LAN, but not on the same subnet (i.e. non-small offices, campuses, etc.). It requires storing another configuration item (the "Internal SSID"), but during configuration, you could query the SSID and use it as the default value, so users typically wouldn't need to manually enter it. Then the 2 server IP addresses could be called "Server Internal IP Address" and "Server External IP Address".

[bgowland]

In your example, the connection from work would go from the phone via wi-fi to the work LAN, then out the work Internet connection to the Internet, then to my home LAN via my home ISP connection. So the mobile net interface still wouldn't be needed/used.

In your place of work maybe but what about others? I used to work at a place where we had 4 subnets. Two of those subnets didn't even have a route between each other and one of them could only access the outside world through a proxy server and only if the client was using http on port 80...and its DNS server was internal-only.

I like you idea of using the SSID for determining which server address to use. That method takes care of the problem where the same LAN network range is being used in multiple places (i.e. at home and at work).

SSID would need to be checked for that reason - I can't assume that because the network address is the same then it must be the same network.

[BrettB]

In your place of work maybe but what about others? I used to work at a place where we had 4 subnets. Two of those subnets didn't even have a route between each other and one of them could only access the outside world through a proxy server and only if the client was using http on port 80...and its DNS server was internal-only.

In that case none of the other applications on the phone needing to use the Internet would work either. So, there wouldn't be any reason for me to have my phone setup to connect to the work wi-fi.

[bgowland]

In that case none of the other applications on the phone needing to use the Internet would work either. So, there wouldn't be any reason for me to have my phone setup to connect to the work wi-fi.

But again that's your scenario and not necessarily everybody's. Even a closed LAN/WLAN scenario can still provide access to local (corporate) resources such as network printers, access to intra-net web services, sync'ing of corporate email accounts etc.

One interesting use of wi-fi in a 'closed' network I came across, is a guy developing an 'exhibit guide' for a museum.

As the visitors enter different 'zones' (Science, Natural History etc) the app would identify roughly where they are based on available SSIDs of local APs. The app would present a 'gallery' of images of exhibits in each zone the user could flip through and select to get more information (textual, short movie clip, audio-commentary etc).

Nice idea, very innovative but no access to the outside world as the museum didn't want people just wandering in with their laptops and surfing for free.

Anyway, enough of hypothetical discussions of smart-phone usage - I've hopefully managed to find a way of doing what I need to do so everybody will be happy...well...urrm, it might work.