Too many skins, too many options, too many plugins...

[MixMan]

My strongest suggestion is to use BlueMCE2 as the "standard" skin (with some modifications), because this is the most "complete" skin when it comes to using images.
Many plugins already have BlueMCE2 skins, so new skinning is not needed.
The resource directory is perfect as a "container" for any graphics a skinner would like tu use.
I have shown with the BaseSkin, that it is possible to emulate almost any skin design with the skin elements that the BaseSkin uses. Most graphics elements that BaseSkin uses can also be found in the resources directory.

The only thing any skin would need is a batch file that will copy the "identical" images to the resources directory, to get a coherent look for the end user.
This is the way I do it, to get the themes designs have the same look in the plugins.
Using a batch file would work for most skinners......also Contour an Blue designs. It would even work for Tipstir that uses an /images directory for his design.


REM BaseSkin to BlueMCE2 resources copy
Copy background.png "..\resources\background.png
copy Button_Normal.png "..\resources\button_green_nofocus_165x32.png"
copy Button_Selected.png "..\resources\button_green_focus_165x32.png"
copy Button_PopupNormal.png "..\resources\button_green_nofocus_150x32.png"
copy Button_PopupSelected.png "..\resources\button_green_focus_150x32.png"
copy Button_CenterNormal.png "..\resources\button_green_nofocus_120x32.png"
copy Button_CenterSelected.png "..\resources\button_green_focus_120x32.png"
copy ListBarNormal.png "..\resources\list_sub_nofocus.png"
copy ListBarSelected.png "..\resources\list_sub_focus.png"
copy ListBarActive.png "..\resources\list_sub_active.png"


All we have to do to get a "standard" skin is to define what images in BlueMCE2 shall be used and specify some recommended X and Y values for the XMLs.

I have started on a sample/suggestion of a plugin/skin pack that will use this method.

[reven]

My strongest suggestion is to use BlueMCE2 as the "standard" skin (with some modifications), because this is the most "complete" skin when it comes to using images.

a port should never be the standard skin, gbpvr should have its own look.

and besides sub would get into legal trouble if he starded using bluemce2 as the standard skin for gbpvr.

[psycik]

Sounds good. I'd prefer however that instead of batch files for changing the skin that it gets done all within GBPVR. It should be possible.

As it is most of my plugins support changing the underlying skin file while in gbpvr and they pick up any changes.

[MixMan]

Reven... sorry for net beeing clear enough.
I did not mean the graphical design, just the use of keeping images in the /resource directory and use MCE2 image naming in the XMLs....for the "standard" plugin skin.
This would work with all the current skins here.

[McBainUK]

I agree with reven, most plugin writers (incl myself) hate the skining part and Blue is the only skin they/I would support "out of the box"

I do like the BaseSkin system - ie a layout defined by xml files and commonly defined images which can be changed by skin/theme designers. This seperates layout from looks. So just by creating a few images one can make a new skin/theme.

Skins seem to be going lots of different ways but this is the good and bad aspects to "open" developement. Maybe work should be done on improving the BaseSkin xml files - ironing out the bugs and increasing plugin support. Then have a few volenteers who will create/update the xml files for the plugins. As I think we all agree its too much work for one person - esp with the 30+ plugins that are available on the wiki, in addition to the main GBPVR screens.

Mark

[McBainUK]

As a side note of anyone has any skin releated questions/requests concerning any of my plugins, feel free to PM me. As mixman, fla etc knows I'm very open to suggestions and co-operative working.

[MixMan]

Skinning a plugin to work with the BaseSkin is very easy, since all the basic graphics elements are in the BaseSkin root. If the Plugin have a "standard" look i use the DesignerGuide Theme to do the X,Y positioning of elements.
The problem for me is that I never know if there are skin updates when a programmer makes a new plugin release. Thats why I don't want to skin the plugins., even though it just takes me 30 mins to skin a plugin.

Since most programmers alredy have MCE2 skins, it would be the most minimal change, jut to rename BlueMCE2 to Standard and use that plugin skin for most skins. I know that will work for BaseSkin, Chamelon, ContourHC, BlueMCE2. If anyone want to skin for BaseSkin, the plugin will work with all skinpacks and all other skin, by just dropping a few images in the skin root,

I think that more users would use the plugins, if a mix of BlueMCE2 and BaseSkin image handling would be used by the programmers.
I think that Subs also could support the BaseSkin idea, with separating looks from XML design. But my guess is that he would like to see a new unique graphical design for GBPVR, before he would go for the idea/concept. Until then it seems like the plugin programmers will only make Blue skins. = Status Quo
This means Subs must be in the discussion.... or ?

[Fatman_do]

Ok, after a nights sleep I came to the realization that this idea is probably non-starter.

Before I read the rest of these posts, I imagined plugin developers do not want to be hassled on making more than one skin for their plugin (they have no more free time than the rest of us).

The issue is, none of these ideas address the points raised in the first post. There is no magic bullet here. No idea can make this work with the majority of skins out there without forcing re-writes of those skins. That really is the point here isn't it?

All it looks like is the start of a new skin (a modified version of MCE2 or whatever), that uses generic images in the layout. Images that look like 'Blue' instead of a port of other HTPC software.

This does very little to help exsisting skins/plugins.

From this point foward, sure, new or modified skins could work with it. That may be what needs to be done.

ContourHC is xml based, not image based. This idea does not help it.
Hi-Vis, Plain Jane, ContourHC, and The Collection are the "odd man out".

Like Mixman stated just now, until 'blue' moves to an image based design, this idea probably is going nowhere.

[Fatman_do]

As a side note of anyone has any skin releated questions/requests concerning any of my plugins, feel free to PM me. As mixman, fla etc knows I'm very open to suggestions and co-operative working.

Mark, your plugins were a breeze to skin for. I don't think I wished to do something that I ended up not being able to do. I really challenged some plugins my making buttons wider than normal and adopting 16pt fonts for the majority of the plugins.

If this is the results of your UIElements Library in action, I recommend this for new plugin authors to check into. Even if they wish to use all their own code and not use external methods, the ideas are still sound.

[MixMan]

I don't think that anyone have really understood how flexible the BaseSkin/Theme concept is.

I made a "plugin skin" for Torque and ContourHC for the ThemesManager.
This will allows Contour users to change between the different color designs that Contour has. On the fly all MCE2 skin xml designs will get Contour look.

The BaseSkin concept will work with any skin design.
So all plugin developers. Have a look at the BaseSkin and tell me what functionality you miss.....and I will add it.

ThemesManager for ContourHC designs - Uploaded it to the Wiki
http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/uploads/Skin/Con...Themes.zip

By the way, the introduction of the SkinRoot program that sets the %SKINROOT% variable will make the ThemePacks work with any skin/XML design. So now the ThemePacks will install themeself to Fatman_do's Chameleon if a user is preferring he XML design.
ThemePacks are no longer only for BaseSKin use. Plugin skins should work the same way.
If a plugin skin use the naming convention that I have in the ThemePacks, they will work with any skin, that uses the SkinRoot varaible. It is easy to make a ThemePack with the common images for a skin.
It would take me a couple of hours to make a ThemePack for any skin here at GBPVR, that would worked with that skin......but not changing the original XML design.
Just like i did with the ContourHC ThemesPacks for ContourHC.