Too many skins, too many options, too many plugins...

[MixMan]

Describing names is good. I think that common skin images can be kept in the skin root.
Have a look a Revens plugins, he has really many images in some of his plugins. Plugin unique images should stay in the plugin skin directory or a /resources or /image directory.
I think the programmers would go for MNC ....Minimal Necessary Change

[Old Dog]

I think most skinner are looking for an harmonic or appealing combination of colors, shapes and "spaces". It is a little bit like being a painter, trying out different combinations. When a satiesfying "combination" is found, the need to make more variations with backgrounds and buttons don't really exist.
I have never felt like i should do 5 more buttons in different colors or 5 more backgrounds for the same design.
I think Old Dogs AM concept with overlays is technically very smart, but it really don't apply to me, even though I have almost the same possibility to use overlays in the BaseSkin. I have just used it once.

From the end-user perspective, pretend there were 500 of you. Would you all want the same combination?

[psycik]

I have been and we keep watching this thread with interest. I am like Jeff. i use BlueMCE so when i code I design for BlueMCE and then put in Blue and i think on one of mine I also do ContourHC. But i haven't seen much on contour lately.

One thing that i do notice that that the developers have different ways of naming things in their skin files (here I'm talking about the SpecialElements and CompositeImages). Depends on what scheme they use for their drawing - CommonGBPVRUtiltities, GBPVRUIElements etc or their own (I think reven uses his own ways and I've just started doing it myself).

I like the idea of trying to keep it all standardised - like baseSkin and AM (honestly i haven't really played with either of these), but will using these support just changing the colours and images used? Or can they support more fundamental changes - i.e. switching between vertical and horizontal menus??

Maybe a guide for the developers with some base element names that should be used - oh and another thing, I think we should really start trying to use the baseSkin a bit more, it was put in and it was a great idea to reduce the size of skin files and the amount of duplication required. And by making better use of it we might be able to make large changes to say fonts and fonts sizes in just one place - rather than having to do it it about 20 different skin files (an exercise I just did!!!)

Hopefully not a rant, just a bit of a brain dump - no sure how coherent the message is

Just like to say to the skinners - you make the place look a lot better, I know coming from somebody with the artistic ability or a 2 month old frog that what you guys can do is really great....if we could just tighten up the integration between the developers and skinners we'd be onto a great thing!!!

[Old Dog]

From the end-user perspective, pretend there were 500 of you. Would you all want the same combination?

BTW, my bias has always been towards the end-user rather than the skinner or the plug-in programmer.

[MixMan]

Psysik...download the BaseSkin I posted on the Wiki today, and try it out.
I applied the BlueMCE2 Themepack before I posted it.
I made some modification to the icon view images in the Themepack tonight.
But I haven't posted the modified ThemePack yet.
Tell me what you think of the BaseSkin version of BlueMCE2.

[Old Dog]

can they support more fundamental changes - i.e. switching between vertical and horizontal menus?

This is a tough one.

AM is an end-user application intended to enrich the user's experience by making GBPVR more personal and more fun to use. Personally, I am pleased to think that somewhere there might be a preschooler that thinks of AM as their own toy.

So how complicated do you want it to be? There are lots of things that AM could do. In some cases the user interface may be to complicated, in other cases it may be too difficult to provide immediate feedback. Your example is one that currently falls into both of these catagories.

[reven]

I think the only reason the plugin developers all support the blue skin is because sub has requested that plugins do so and that blue is the 'standard' skin today. I am not sure that any of us actually use blue. I use my own customized version of bluemce2, for example, and spend all of my time on that skin. I only check blue at the very end right before I release an update and I spend very little time on it trying to make it look pretty, which is partly why it does not. I also do drawing with xml on the blue versions of the skins because that seems to be what sub has done in his. In my bluemce2 version I use images.

Jeff

thats the exact same thing i do, i skin everything for the pm3 skin and at the last second do the blue skin.

[psycik]

thats the exact same thing i do, i skin everything for the pm3 skin and at the last second do the blue skin.

So generally Plugin developers are lazy!!

[Fatman_do]

I have been and we keep watching this thread with interest.

Thanks, developers interacting is the only way something really can get done here.

One thing that i do notice that that the developers have different ways of naming things in their skin files (here I'm talking about the SpecialElements and CompositeImages). Depends on what scheme they use for their drawing - CommonGBPVRUtiltities, GBPVRUIElements etc or their own (I think reven uses his own ways and I've just started doing it myself).

Those differences really don't impact skinning. Hard coding elements on screen are the hardest thing to work around.

I like the idea of trying to keep it all standardised - like baseSkin and AM (honestly i haven't really played with either of these), but will using these support just changing the colours and images used? Or can they support more fundamental changes - i.e. switching between vertical and horizontal menus??

ThemePacks allow you to change the style (Horizontal, Vertical menus and such). If those themes use naming conventions that AM supports, then the user can choose different backgrounds and buttons. Maybe in the future more elements can be changed.

Maybe a guide for the developers with some base element names that should be used - oh and another thing, I think we should really start trying to use the baseSkin a bit more, it was put in and it was a great idea to reduce the size of skin files and the amount of duplication required. And by making better use of it we might be able to make large changes to say fonts and fonts sizes in just one place - rather than having to do it it about 20 different skin files (an exercise I just did!!!)

Hopefully not a rant, just a bit of a brain dump - no sure how coherent the message is

Just like to say to the skinners - you make the place look a lot better, I know coming from somebody with the artistic ability or a 2 month old frog that what you guys can do is really great....if we could just tighten up the integration between the developers and skinners we'd be onto a great thing!!!

Thanks again for some input.

[MixMan]

All skin designers/ graphical designers have gotten tired of their skins or don't have the time to keep them updated, send me a PM and I will do my best to create/generate a skin for you based on my XMLs. Tell me what plugins you would like to support in your skin.