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Primer: Dual Tuner Cards - Feedback Please

 
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Primer: Dual Tuner Cards - Feedback Please
jksmurf
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#1
2006-10-19, 02:53 AM (This post was last modified: 2006-11-27, 06:16 AM by jksmurf.)
Primer: Dual Tuner Cards

While the wiki has quite a long single-tuner capture card list, Dual Tuners and so-called Dual Tuners are becoming more popular, so I thought I'd start a thread compiled from forum feedback (thanks to all) for comments and for eventual inclusion in the WIKI (or even a sticky thread). What's the point? Just to centralize what is known and reduce repeat answers I guess... besides, I want to buy one too.

Please post any corrections or additions on DUAL TUNER Card use with GBPVR, and let me know the category (below) it falls into if possible, even ones that do NOT work. This might save someone buying a "dud". I will update this post as feedback is made. Not all Dual Tuner Cards are created equal!

NOTE 1. If you have a SINGLE Cable/DSL feed with DIGITAL Channels, with Dual Tuners (in fact, no matter how many tuners you have), you can watch or record ONE of these with DIGITAL Channels at the same time. You can however watch and record one ANALOG Channel and one Digital Channel simultaneously, because (at least in the US) digital cable co's must carry the Free-to-air (FTA) analog channels in the same feed.

NOTE 2. There is NO software app OR any hardware allows you to record and watch different different channels at the SAME time on a SINGLE tuner system. There are some exceptions to this rule when it comes to free to air DVB transmissions.

NOTE 3. Hybrid Cards. Some Tuners touted as "Dual" Analog / Digital Tuners are Dual in the respect that they can serve a Dual Purpose ... just not simultaneously. If you read the fine print you will often see an "or" when the words "Analog" and "Digital" (or DVB-T etc.) appear in the same sentence. They do NOT allow you to record and watch simultaneously as some have a SINGLE chip that is used for ONE process only at a time. This is due to the physical hardware of hybrid cards. e.g. There is a SINGLE hybrid tuner Philips FMD1216ME on the HVR-1100/1300 that handles EITHER analogue or digital. The tuner can switch between analogue and digital as soon as the software requests it, but they cannot do both analogue and digital at the same time (here, "time" is actual time). If you need a REAL Dual Tuner Card, get one that allows either DVB+DVB, Analogue+Analogue or DVB+Analogue (simultaneously).

NOTE 4. Dual Tuner Limitations by PVR OS. There is a limitation in Microsoft's MCE OS, which doesn't concern simultaneous use, but configuration states. Even if you have two cards - one analogue and one digital (or two hybrids) you will NOT be able to use analogue and digital at the same "time". Here, "time" relates to a particular configuration state of the system - if you want to switch from viewing analogue channels to viewing digital, you must delete all channels from the MCE Guide, rescan from scratch and re-setup the EPG. Annoying? Very. That is just another reason why GB-PVR is so much better than Media Center.

NOTE 5. Putting Analogue and Digital into the card from a single STB:

Q. As your cable STB can output only one channel at a time and you will have only one line going into the TV tuner card, how would the TV tuner be able to tune to two channels simultaneously?

A. Assuming that you have analog cable channels you can split your coax before the cable box. Then one goes into the cable box and the other to your ANALOG input on the card. The cable box would be connected to the Svideo or Composite connection on your PVR card. You then setup GBPVR so that one tuner uses the tuner (for analog channels) and you setup GBPVR to use the IR blaster to change channels on your cable box and record from the Svideo or Composite jack (which you cable box is feeding). If you need to be able to record from the cable box all the time (aka - you don't have analog cable channels) you will need 2 IR Blasters & 2 cable boxes. You also may need the extra Svideo/Composite bracket for your PVR500 card (e.g.), to get a 2nd Svideo/Composite jack. Then each cable box would need to feed one of the Svideo/Composite jacks, and you would setup GBPVR to handle them via the IR blasters, and record from those Svideo/Composite inputs.

NOTE 6. "Digital TV" (DTV) comes in a number of flavours and generally results in either Standard (S)DTV or HIGH (H)DTV. You do NOT need an HDTV to watch Digital TV, but you do need at least a Standard Digital TV (SDTV). Note that "ATSC" is in itself NOT a form of DTV, it is actually the US organisation responsible for defining DTV in North America. "ATSC Cards" are thus those which support Digital Input to the American Standard. Europe has their own organisation, DVB. Digital TV in Europe (and other locations in the world adopting DVB) is transported using various different technologies. Flavours of Digital TV in Europe include DVB-T (Terrestrial), DVB-S (Satellite), etc. Confusingly, the ATSC does include a form of DVB in its list of standards.

NOTE 7. Sub's general response to "will it work with GBPVR" is: If your device comes with BDA drivers, then you'll mostly be able to get the digital side of things working in GB-PVR by adding a section to the bda.ini file. If it doesnt have BDA drivers, then this device will not work with GB-PVR.

NOTE 8. If it says "Works with GBPVR" below, this means at least the digital side works. The analog side "may" not work in all instances, particularly if there is no hardware MPEG encoder.

Lists presented below....

Cheers

k.

NB: I compiled these lists out of interest and so that other folks have a simple reference. I tried to cross-check as much as I could, but please note that I am not going to accept any responsibility if you happen to purchase the wrong card. You do need to go away and do a bit of research on your own, to confirm which card you need for your system and for the type of Broadcasts you receive where you live.
ASUS STRIX X470-F AMD 2700x 4GHz | Win10Prox64 | 32GB | NVIDIA GEforce GT1030 Fanless | WinTV DMB-TH | WinTV HVR-1280 | Hauppauge Colossus | AC86U/AC68U | USB-UIRT | RPi4 Libreelec | Sony Bravia LCD X9000F Android TV |
jksmurf
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#2
2006-11-08, 11:38 PM (This post was last modified: 2007-01-02, 06:39 AM by jksmurf.)
A: "Hybrid" Dual Tuner Cards - Analogue + Digital with ONE Tuner

For these, you need to setup two capture sources, one for the analog side of the device (using the Direct Recording Plugin), and one for the digital side of the device (using the BDA Recording Plugin).
  • ASUS My Cinema P7131 Dual. Analog TV and DTV capture card. Digital side works with GBPVR according to this thread. OK, but the Analog side of this card is NOT supported natively by GB-PVR, although you may have some success with the software encoder plugin.
  • ATI Theater Pro 650. Analog TV and ASTC or DTV capture card. Single Chip Solution. Works with GBPVR according to this post.
  • AverMedia Hybrid H/W MPEG Cards. OK, but note the analog side is not compatible with GBPVR. See also
    this site AverMedia Hybrid MPEG Cards. It is likely, but is not confirmed, that all the Hybrid cards on that list are similar.
  • FusionHDTV DVB-T. (Not the Dual Digital one that one may really be real Dual). Hybrid device no longer shown on co's website. OK, but analog side of this card is NOT supported natively by GB-PVR.
  • Hauppauge HVR-1300. DVB-T + Analog. As far as GB-PVR is concerned the DVB side is just a Nova-T PCI 90002. The analogue side is more like a Conexant Blackbird (Hauppauge Roslyn). Sub notes the Roslyn is supported, and should work. You should set both capture sources to #1. Again, it is not possible to use the two tuners (DVB-T and analog) of the HVR-1300 at the same time. Why? This device has only got one tuner, so you can only do either an analog or digital recording, not both at the same time. Sub notes: With the most recent release, the analog and digital parts of the HVR-1300 are treated as the same card, meaning you can't schedule two recordings at the same time, one on each. GB-PVR supports the digital and analog on the HVR1300. Note that some users have had issues getting TWO HVR-1300's running (i.e. 4 Tuners).
  • Hauppauge HVR-1100. DVB-T or Analog. GB-PVR supports ONLY the digital side on the HVR1100. The Analog side of this card is NOT supported by GB-PVR as the HVR-1100 uses a software encoder for the analogue side. You may wish to try the software encoder plugin for the HVR-1100.
  • Lifeview FlyDVB-T Hybrid. Analog TV and DTV capture card. Digital side works with GBPVR according to this thread. OK, but the Analog side of this card is NOT supported natively by GB-PVR. The FM radio has also been reported to work.
  • Lifeview TV Walker Hybrid and Lifeview FlyTV Box Hybrid. Works with GBPVR (Digital side known to work using BDA drivers) but the Lifeview (and other similar branded) TV Walker Cards have been difficult to get going with GBPVR (A forum search will show this, see e.g. this post.
  • Norwood Micro Digital/Analog PCI TV Tuner Card: Status Unknown, no known website (Norwood Micro is a CompUSA brand). Unlikely.
  • Medion SAA7134 hybrid. OK, but analog side not compatible with GBPVR. For those looking, the unofficial Medion support forum (with access to drivers) is here and here are the drivers.
  • Pinnacle PCTV Hybrid Pro Stick. OK, but analog side of this card is NOT supported natively by GB-PVR.
  • Terratec Cinergy (Cynergy) XS Hybrid. OK, but analog side not compatible with GBPVR.
  • Toshiba PCI DVB-T/Analog Hybrid Tuner. OK, but analog side not compatible with GBPVR.
  • [URL=http://www.twinhan.com/news_releases_2.asp?newsid=93"] Twinhan Magic Box Pro.[/URL] Status Unknown, but analog support unlikely. Refer this post.
  • Twinhan Hybrid DTV 3054. OK, but analog side of this card is NOT supported natively by GB-PVR.
======================================================
B: "Real" Dual Analogue (MPEG2 Encoder) Cards
  • Avermedia Purity 500. Believed to work with GBPVR. It is NOT 2 x chips of AverTV 250 MCE model (as previously reported), but rather it is a VIXS II-based chip. However it does not appear to currently support MPEG4, even though MPEG4 is part of the VIXSII Software SPEC. There may be conflict with nForce motherboards.
  • Adaptec AVC 3610. Does not work officially but.... some folks have had great success using the Adaptec AVC-3610. It shows up as an adaptec videoh during setup but runs flawlessly using both tuners. Refer this Post and This Post. The AVC-3610 does have hardware encoders.
  • [URL=http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvr500mce.html" ]Hauppauge PVR-500 [/URL]Newer PVR-500 cards have Samsung tuners instead of Philips ones, and these (newer ones) may have more problems.
  • NVidia DualTV. The nvidia DualTV (ViXS-based) card now works with GB-PVR. (See this post) for direct.ini details.
  • Vistaview Sabre 2020 is a (PCI Express only) Dual Analog TV card based on the ViXS chipset. As of GBPVR 98.13, sub has added support for ViXS based capture cards.

Note There have been reports (and I stress they are "posts on the Internet") of compatibility problems between ViXS-based cards and other PCI-based HDTV cards in NForce Chipset Motherboards. Refer this post. Post.

======================================================
C: Dual Tuner Cards with one "Real" Analogue (MPEG2 Encoder) Tuner and one Digital DVB-T (or other DV flavour) Tuner
  • Lifeview FlyDVB-T Duo. Appears some have had limited success with this card. Based on these posts, Post1, [url=href="http://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?t=6931]Post2[/url], Post3, quite a difficult card to get going with GBPVR. Do not get this Dual Tuner confused with the Hybrid Version (See above). There's also a trio version.

==========================================================
Other lists continued below
ASUS STRIX X470-F AMD 2700x 4GHz | Win10Prox64 | 32GB | NVIDIA GEforce GT1030 Fanless | WinTV DMB-TH | WinTV HVR-1280 | Hauppauge Colossus | AC86U/AC68U | USB-UIRT | RPi4 Libreelec | Sony Bravia LCD X9000F Android TV |
jksmurf
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#3
2006-11-27, 07:39 AM (This post was last modified: 2007-04-09, 11:10 AM by jksmurf.)
======================================================
D: Dual DVB Only Cards. Note there are many different flavours of DVB. DVB-S, DVB-T etc...
  • The Hauppauge Nova-t-500 should already be working - all that should be required is to add a section to bda.ini, which by now sub has probably already added. You might need to search for Nova-t-Stick though.
  • The Hauppauge HVR-3000 is actually a Triple Tuner with analog support (software only). For GBPVR use it has effectively only two H/W tuners, DVB-T and DVB-S as observed in sub's v98.13 change.log release notes. The same applies to the HVR-4000. Note as per this post and this thread that while it lacks a hardware encoder for the Analog side, the v98.13 release notes observe (an exception to the general rule) the analog side WILL work natively in GBPVR provided SoftPVR is installed as GBPVR re-uses some of those components. Note though that the analog part does require some additional CPU resources over those that are purely hardware based MPEG2 Encoder cards on the analog side.
  • The LifeView M9207 Twin USB Tuner (DVB-T) also sold as a "Digital Now" Dual USB Tuner. Works with GB-PVR.
  • The Pinnacle PCTV Dual DVB-T Pro PCI. Works with GB-PVR.
  • The Terratec Cinergy 2400i which is a dual-DVB card (PCIe only). Works with GB-PVR.

E: Dual ATSC Only Cards.
  • Vbox (Vboxcomm's) Cat’s Eye 164e. Not much known at this stage. Note: "Basically as an ATSC tuner card it works great, however since it is a hybrid design for NTSC (analog) it requires a software MPEG encoder. This is why we are selling it as an ATSC card only." i.e. it is a dual ATSC Card for digital but it uses a software encoder for analog. Refer this htcpnews forum thread.
  • Silicondust Engineering's HDHomeRun. It's a dual ATSC/QAM 64 & 256. It is now "officially" supported in GB-PVR as a BDA device. It is an ATSC device and sub cannot use or test these types of devices. It does require that the bda.ini entries be manually added because the filter name entries will be different for each device. Instructions can be found here. Whurlston has even written a small utility to add the entries to the bda.ini

New post required here as above posts heavily amended, as more cards added (max. 10,000 character limits reached).
ASUS STRIX X470-F AMD 2700x 4GHz | Win10Prox64 | 32GB | NVIDIA GEforce GT1030 Fanless | WinTV DMB-TH | WinTV HVR-1280 | Hauppauge Colossus | AC86U/AC68U | USB-UIRT | RPi4 Libreelec | Sony Bravia LCD X9000F Android TV |
jksmurf
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#4
2006-11-27, 07:39 AM
Reservation Post 1 for future card lists.
ASUS STRIX X470-F AMD 2700x 4GHz | Win10Prox64 | 32GB | NVIDIA GEforce GT1030 Fanless | WinTV DMB-TH | WinTV HVR-1280 | Hauppauge Colossus | AC86U/AC68U | USB-UIRT | RPi4 Libreelec | Sony Bravia LCD X9000F Android TV |
jksmurf
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#5
2006-11-27, 07:40 AM
Reservation Post 2 for future card lists.
ASUS STRIX X470-F AMD 2700x 4GHz | Win10Prox64 | 32GB | NVIDIA GEforce GT1030 Fanless | WinTV DMB-TH | WinTV HVR-1280 | Hauppauge Colossus | AC86U/AC68U | USB-UIRT | RPi4 Libreelec | Sony Bravia LCD X9000F Android TV |
clydebuilt
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#6
2006-11-27, 11:14 AM (This post was last modified: 2006-12-01, 04:45 PM by clydebuilt.)
This card works fine with a single card installed but adding a second identical card to the same PC can give some problems with scanning for channels.

The problem seems to be with the Pinnacle driver as I have not managed to get Pinnacle's software to successfully scan but GB-PVR did eventually do it.

Brian

Update from Pinnacle:
I checked with my product specialist about your problem, and in fact there is a limit of three DVB-T tuners.

One up for GB-PVR then!
Asrock 4core1600-D800 board with Intel processor and onboard Realtek audio - Vista - Samsung 160HD + Samsung 400HD for GBPVR, two Pinnacle Dual DVB-T Pro PCI, two MVP
-Oz-
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#7
2006-12-17, 07:32 PM
added to the wiki (finally), took a bit to reformat it: http://gbpvr.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Hardw...ptureCards
Dan Blomberg
[SIZE="1"]HTPC 1: MSI K8NGM2-FID, AMD 64 3000+, WD 200gb HDD, 1gb ram, NSK2400, PVR-500, Harmony 659
HTPC 2: ASUS M2NPV-VM, AMD 64 3200+, WD 250gb HDD, 1gb ram, nVidia DualTV MCE, NSK2400, Harmony 720
HTPC 3: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400, Intel E5200 Wolfdale, WD 640gb HDD, 4gb ram, Antec Fusion 2, HVR-1600, hdhomerun, Harmony 880, PCH A-110
GBPVR 1.4.7 Additions: Weather2, UltraXMLTV, Comskip
Project: Setup Logitech Harmony Remote[/SIZE]
jksmurf
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#8
2006-12-17, 11:08 PM (This post was last modified: 2006-12-17, 11:15 PM by jksmurf.)
Cheers Oz, appreciate that. Might want to add a note to the documentation forum as a "here it is boys and girls" heads-up :-)

Yeah wiki formatting is a bit hard to get the head around at first . I "think" there is an html to wiki converter somewhere that might do it but never tried it myself tbh.

I've seen some discussion on the Norwood, being similar to a Twinham, but I'm not sure anyone said definitively that it would work.

New cards seem to come in all the time, so it'll be a 'mare to keep updated, but hey it's a start!

k.
ASUS STRIX X470-F AMD 2700x 4GHz | Win10Prox64 | 32GB | NVIDIA GEforce GT1030 Fanless | WinTV DMB-TH | WinTV HVR-1280 | Hauppauge Colossus | AC86U/AC68U | USB-UIRT | RPi4 Libreelec | Sony Bravia LCD X9000F Android TV |
-Oz-
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#9
2006-12-18, 08:51 AM
its a good list though
Dan Blomberg
[SIZE="1"]HTPC 1: MSI K8NGM2-FID, AMD 64 3000+, WD 200gb HDD, 1gb ram, NSK2400, PVR-500, Harmony 659
HTPC 2: ASUS M2NPV-VM, AMD 64 3200+, WD 250gb HDD, 1gb ram, nVidia DualTV MCE, NSK2400, Harmony 720
HTPC 3: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400, Intel E5200 Wolfdale, WD 640gb HDD, 4gb ram, Antec Fusion 2, HVR-1600, hdhomerun, Harmony 880, PCH A-110
GBPVR 1.4.7 Additions: Weather2, UltraXMLTV, Comskip
Project: Setup Logitech Harmony Remote[/SIZE]
CRasch
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#10
2006-12-22, 06:50 AM (This post was last modified: 2006-12-22, 06:55 AM by CRasch.)
The AVerTV Purity 3D MCE 500 is not 2 AveryTV 250MCE but also a VIXS chipset like the Saber2020 and nVidia DualTV. Testing tomorrow.
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