DVB-T recommendation

[RedDwarfer]

My TV's are analogue only, so I can't make comparisons with that.

Thanks for your comments, My TV's are Analogue also, like yours. I need a new TV but I am not satisfied with the current TV technology and don't want to waste money on it.

I'm using 2 Nova-T pci cards & have no complaints. The picture quality compares very well to my Panasonic TV which has integrated dvb.

The Panasonic's are the better of the LCD TV's available. If I went for LCD, it would probably be Panasonic.

The only problem I get is due to trees between me & the transmitter causing the signal to drop out on the rare occasion. I would say the cards are about the same as the tv regarding reception, if not better.

I would say that signal strength is the most importatnt factor when considering dvb - any signal dropouts cause audio sync problems which then have to be fixed (Videoredo works fine).

I pickup all channels ok, channel 5 is perfect. I've lost Film4+1 on the Nova's & on the TV though, used to get it before Xmas...

I've never tried subtitles so I can't comment

I do have a tree near my home also, so I hope that does not interfere with reception when I try FreeView. My Analogue reception is very good here, far better than it was at my old place before I moved. But that does not mean the Digital TV will be good. I am in a big City so the signal should be reasonable but I do get trouble receiving DAB radio here. It might be the rubbish clock radio I use, it does have trouble receiving local stations when it is downstairs. If I listen to the football it has to go upstairs to receive it.

My Aerial is in the loft, so fingers crossed for the Freeview.

Thanks for the comments on the signal quality, I will try to maximize that. I was thinking of getting an aerial booster/amplifier but I have seen that some TV cards do not like them for some reason. I don't know why unless it is the voltage that it is amplified to.

Do the subtitles work okay on the Nova-T cards? I might get the Nova-T 500 Dual tuner card so having working subtitles would be needed.

GB-PVR will only do this on DVB systems using Teletext Subtitles, but that is not the case in the UK. Instead freeview uses DVB Subtitles.

GB-PVR has some simplistic support for viewing these during live tv, but not ability to record them - it used to work for recording (and will probably be fixed in the future), but this was not to srt format, since DVB Subtitles are based on pictures rather than text so no easy way to do this.

I don't know much about subtitles, I dislike using them myself and always avoid them myself as I dislike having to read while watching anything as it is a distraction from the programme. I wanted to be able to do them for someone else who does need them.

It sounds like DVB subtitles are very much like DVD subtitles as they are picture based and require image recognition to extract them, I have done that to convert DVD subs to srt before.

Does GB-PVR record into a format which will preserve the subtitle information? Does it record the Mpeg2 transport stream to disk while it is converting to XDiv? The Conversion sounds like it could be useful part of the programme. Providing I can extract the subtitles at a later time using something like subrip that would be okay.

Keep in mind that the analog side of the device will only work with GB-PVR if it has the hardware MPEG2 encoder. Most of the older style hybrid cards did not have this encoder, so the analog side is useless.

Okay thanks. I think I will go for a Dual tuner card so video input seems unlikely with that type of card. I have not seen a good dual DVB-T tuner card available which has video input. It would mean purchasing a separate card to do that. It might be useful for connecting a Sky Satellite receiver or something like that so I might consider that at a later date. I only really wanted to use one PCI slot but there does not seem anyway to avoid two cards now.

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions, if anyone has any other recommendations then that will be appreciated. If there is a card that has dual DVB-T tuners AND video input (preferably hardware) then I would like to know about it.

[sub]

I don't know much about subtitles, I dislike using them myself and always avoid them myself as I dislike having to read while watching anything as it is a distraction from the programme. I wanted to be able to do them for someone else who does need them.

It sounds like DVB subtitles are very much like DVD subtitles as they are picture based and require image recognition to extract them, I have done that to convert DVD subs to srt before.

Does GB-PVR record into a format which will preserve the subtitle information? Does it record the Mpeg2 transport stream to disk while it is converting to XDiv? The Conversion sounds like it could be useful part of the programme. Providing I can extract the subtitles at a later time using something like subrip that would be okay.

UK subtitles wont be recorded at all. Currently the DVB Subtitles it uses are only viewable during live tv.

Only Teletext subtitles are recorded.

[RedDwarfer]

So where in the broadcast are DVB subtitles kept? Are they not part of the Mpeg2 transmission?

Do you know where I could find information on how they are broadcast so I know more about it? Then I would know what I need to look for and how to do it.

I have been looking at the hauppauge website for manuals on their DVB-T tv cards. It looks like their website is about as good as their support is reported to be. Totally useless. No manuals for any of their newer cards. So it is not possible to find out what support their cards have for DVB subtitles.

[RedDwarfer]

double post

[sub]

So where in the broadcast are DVB subtitles kept? Are they not part of the Mpeg2 transmission?

Yes, they are in the original transport stream transmission, but they're not in the part that is recorded to disk. They effectively thrown away at this stage.

...So it is not possible to find out what support their cards have for DVB subtitles.

DVB Subtitles is really a feature of the software rather than the device. I dont think their software supports DVB Subtitles, so it wont work with any of their devices when you run their software.

[RedDwarfer]

Is it just GB-PVR that does this when it records? Could it not be included when a show is recorded so that the recording could be fully used afterwards by other software if necessary. A show can only be recorded once, so anything lost cannot be recovered.

Surely modifying the MPEG2 stream takes work. Is that necessary?

What benefits does that provide?

[sub]

Is it just GB-PVR that does this when it records?

Most apps work this way, but there are probably some out there that will record the DVB Subtitle stream. I dont know what apps they might be though.

Surely modifying the MPEG2 stream takes work. Is that necessary?

Yes. If it recorded the whole transport stream, your disk would be filled very quickly (27mb per second). It arrives as a transport stream, contain up to about 10 channels, each made up of a video stream plus one or more audio streams, plus dozens of data streams for things like teletext, dvb subtitles, MHEG-5, EPG listing, service and tuning information etc. When you record it only keeps the single channel, remuxing it's audio and video stream in to the a regular program stream (.mpg) file - the rest is thrown away.

[RedDwarfer]

Ah I am starting to understand. I am very new to Digital TV (as you might of guessed lol). The hauppauge software does not seem to use the EPG, it seems to use some other paid for EPG guide, it is a trial on the hauppauge software as I understand it.

Having never used Freeview, I don't really know how it works.

I guess I will find out.

Thanks for your time and the information

I will probably go for the Nova-T 500 I think. Just a bit more research before I order.

[martint123]

Thanks for the info sub, can you recommend any reading material for the subject? or is it a black art like so many other computery things?
Transport streams, mux's, demux's, filters, graphs etc etc. My ears pricked up at filters having played with DSP chips and old modems, but I was way off the mark there!.

cheers

[RedDwarfer]

I have come across the Nebula DigiTV card which seems very good. Made in the UK so it fully supports all UK features. No Dual Tuners. So would need two cards. They seem to provide good support, I test the support by telephoning them on Tuesday and ask some questions.
It will cost more, but at least the support will be there which it is not with hauppauge. They are supposed to be supporting HiDef Freeview if it ever starts being rolled out nationally. It does only have a composite input, I would of liked a s-video input as well.

I still have to find something to do the subtitles. I came across this card while searching videohelp. I will ask nebula about the subtitles to find out how well they support it. Maybe their software will allow the subtitles to be saved in a format that subrip will work with.