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HD PVR cards???

 
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HD PVR cards???
SFX Group
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#11
2007-11-08, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 2007-11-08, 06:07 PM by SFX Group.)
I understand what your saying here, but again get rid of the jargon....

PAL is 720x576 res, as a rule its composite, so Hauppauge makes a PVR (PVR150 which takes this and turns it to MPEG, done........

What your saying is HD images are no longer composite (from what you are saying above), and if they are composite then you are saying it will be down ressed to 720x576 pixels (as per PAL, NTSC is different).......

Ignore the fact you can get cards with tuners stick to the PVR150 as an example as most in the UK use this for the composite input from the SKY box, most people in the UK use the Composite or S-Video input.

i will do some research on this as regards the signal content with regards HD etc.... although you do raise a valid point if you can get your mits on the undecodded stream then yes i assume you can save it.

I happen to know SKY in the UK use MPG but its encrypted and the decryption is not possible as they spent so much money doing there own hardward to do this no one can copy it (got stories here about that).

However i also know the SKY+ box just streams the satellite data straight to hard disk (this is how they know its MPG encrypted). Also PACE when they made the first SKY box had a firewire output for stuff like GBPVR but SKY went nuts, took the box and plans and destroyed the lot, this is just something they didnt want to do (4 years later SKY+ which explains why they didnt want other to record there channels, they where going to do there own PVR AND make it so when your card expires you cant watch them either, hence saving the encrypted data so you NEED the card to see it, a firewire out would mean its standard watchable MPG file, SKY didnt like this (hence went nuts)).
Many Thanks
Ashley

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sub
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#12
2007-11-08, 06:06 PM
Composite or S-Video always carry standard definition PAL/NTSC.

Set top boxes typically use either Component or HDMI to carry high def signals to your TV. There is no consumer boards for recording this type of signal. Some board do exist, but they are expensive, non-standard, and wont record anything which is copy protected (on HDMI at least).

Any existing DVB device can be used to record high definition channels without needing a set top box, but only if the signal is unencrypted. No hardware encoding is required, since the digital signal was encoded by the broadcaster prior to transmission.
SFX Group
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#13
2007-11-08, 06:39 PM
yep, read this, all looks very "VHS / BETA" war at the moment, what with HDMI type A (with that encryption do-dad thing) and HDMI B which isnt implimented yet, then you have DVI-A DVI-D and DVI-I which is the computer version (which i bet will be abit of a war happening from HDMI and DVI-D, thing is you can get copyright do-dad (remember Macrovision), on HDMI so i bet that stays in power for the TV).

So the learning curve here has been "wait for 2-3 years until it all sorts itself out"
Many Thanks
Ashley

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fvfv
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#14
2007-11-08, 07:06 PM
sub Wrote:Composite or S-Video always carry standard definition PAL/NTSC.

Set top boxes typically use either Component or HDMI to carry high def signals to your TV. There is no consumer boards for recording this type of signal. Some board do exist, but they are expensive, non-standard, and wont record anything which is copy protected (on HDMI at least).

Any existing DVB device can be used to record high definition channels without needing a set top box, but only if the signal is unencrypted. No hardware encoding is required, since the digital signal was encoded by the broadcaster prior to transmission.


My poor's man HD Recorder is an old replaytv where I connect the Svideo/out from my pc to the svideo in on the replaytv. I play HD recordings from GBPVR or mplayer on the PC, then the replaytv can be used to pause, rew and fwd or record again that signal. But of course it is downgraded from HDEF to SD, even though is pretty good quality.

I suppose that could be done as well with a Hauppauge 150/350 svideo in as a loop back from the PC.
bogyver
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#15
2007-11-08, 08:34 PM
SFX Group Wrote:yep, read this, all looks very "VHS / BETA" war at the moment, what with HDMI type A (with that encryption do-dad thing) and HDMI B which isnt implimented yet, then you have DVI-A DVI-D and DVI-I which is the computer version (which i bet will be abit of a war happening from HDMI and DVI-D, thing is you can get copyright do-dad (remember Macrovision), on HDMI so i bet that stays in power for the TV).

So the learning curve here has been "wait for 2-3 years until it all sorts itself out"

HDMI uses the same signaling system as DVI-D and DVI-I so they are compatible, the main reason that hdmi was developed was to add high bandwidth digital audio channel, making a one cable hook up.
DVI is also compatible with HDCP (the copy protection for HDMI) the new cards from ati and nvidia support HDCP and there are certain lcd monitors that support HDCP
HDMI B is for use in large res display hook (3200x2048) so will probably not be used for TV since the HDMI A spec easily handles 1080P
HDMI C is a smaller version of A to be used on portable devices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

To add more fuel to the fire there is another connector coming called display port that does much of the same as HDMI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_port
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mvallevand
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#16
2007-11-08, 11:55 PM
bogyver Wrote:HDMI uses the same signaling system as DVI-D and DVI-I so they are compatible, the main reason that hdmi was developed was to add high bandwidth digital audio channel, making a one cable hook up.
DVI is also compatible with HDCP (the copy protection for HDMI) the new cards from ati and nvidia support HDCP and there are certain lcd monitors that support HDCP

I will add to the HDMI discussion, because I never really knew the importance until looking into the popcornhour device, HDMI 1.3 might be important for those that want the best Dolby and DTS audio with higer bit rate video from their Blu-ray and HD-DVD players.

Putting this back to topic I imagine the math involved in returning an HD digital HDMI signal to h.264 format for capture purposes, which I think what we all really want is unlikely, and will no doubt be made more difficult by the DRM protection protecting the HDMI signal. That is only my opinion and I hope I'm wrong.

Martin
SFX Group
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#17
2007-11-09, 12:47 AM
mvallevand Wrote:I will add to the HDMI discussion, because I never really knew the importance until looking into the popcornhour device, HDMI 1.3 might be important for those that want the best Dolby and DTS audio with higer bit rate video from their Blu-ray and HD-DVD players.

Putting this back to topic I imagine the math involved in returning an HD digital HDMI signal to h.264 format for capture purposes, which I think what we all really want is unlikely, and will no doubt be made more difficult by the DRM protection protecting the HDMI signal. That is only my opinion and I hope I'm wrong.

Martin

Copy protection gets hacked HOWEVER it depends how much money is injected in to this and whos driving it.

But considering DVD copyprotection still proves slighty problematic to this day i would say it might not be as easy as anyone thinks due to the high profile companies (Hauppauge) need to stay "legal", this said, the PVR150 does macrovision stripping!!!

You never know, its a wait and see i think
Many Thanks
Ashley

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bogyver
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#18
2007-11-09, 02:55 AM
I dont know for a fact but I dont think that HDCP is used on hd satellite or cable stb's, since they will give you the hidef on the component. I really dont care about using hdmi, I'm more interested in using the component video, since it should be the easiest to implement given the nature of current mpeg capture cards.
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mvallevand
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#19
2007-11-09, 03:05 AM
bogyver Wrote:I dont know for a fact but I dont think that HDCP is used on hd satellite or cable stb's, since they will give you the hidef on the component. I really dont care about using hdmi, I'm more interested in using the component video, since it should be the easiest to implement given the nature of current mpeg capture cards.

Don't you think there'd be sync and time stamp problems with component video with independent digital audio?

Martin
bogyver
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#20
2007-11-09, 03:56 AM
Thats a good point haven't thought to much about it, perhaps a card could be made that would have a digital input. I would think that way they could utilize a similar scheme the pvr-150, but it might be easier to use the hdmi. I guess we can hope that cable co's and satellite providers wont turn on the hdcp on the stb's but if histories any indication things dont look good, maybe the fcc will step in and make things better.
Server:
Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200
Intel GMA4500
40gb System drive 400gb Recordings drive
2gb ram
Pinncle PCTV HD PCI Capture Card
2 AverTV USB Volar ATSC HDTV Tuner
Hauppauge HD PVR
Client:
AMD Athlon 3300+
Nvidia 8600GT 256M
1Gb ram
250gb Hard Drive

"There's a fine line between enemy and friend, where that line is there is no beginning and no end"
From Childern of Dune
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