USA Hardware Confusion -- Should/Can I Go HD?

[Pilot]

I just upgraded my HTPC probably to the point of overkill (at least for how I'm currently using it). I'm far from a GBPVR newbie, but I'm definitely not a very techie user like quite a few of the long-time users. I currently have one Hauppauge PVR500 and a Hauppauge PVR150 (for a total of 3 tuners). My HTPC is hooked up directly to a 42" plasma HDTV by way of a DVI to HDMI cable, and I also use two MediaMVP's on a 60" DLP HDTV and a another 42" plasma HDTV. I just recently moved to a new home and had Comcast cable forced on me. To get any HD programming you have to pay extra and go through a STB. Since most of my family doesn't really appreciate the difference, I only subscribed to one STB that's hooked up to the same 42" plasma as the HTPC.

Now....I've searched, I've read, read again, searched again, read again...and now my head is spinning. So I'd like to humbly pose some questions to those more knowledgeable than me:

1. Should I switch out one of my analog TV cards for something like a Hauppauge HVR1600?
2. Would I be able to even use it with Comcast (I'm hoping other Comcast customers will know because every Comcast tech I've talked to seems to know less about Comcast than I do). I'm admittedly confused by what each cable provider actually provides in terms of HD broadcasts and what cards can actually tune in.
3. Is the config/channel listing a pain? It seems to be a lot more complicated than my old analog PVR cards, but I can't get a good grip on all that's required.
4. How are recordings handled in a mixed system like that? Say I have a PVR500 and a HVR1600. How many tuners total would that give me (3 analog and one HD or ???), and would GBPVR get confused about recording HDTV versus regular? For example, would GBPVR recognize that I only have one HD tuner installed, so if I schedule two HD shows to record at the same time, would GBPVR report a scheduling conflict or how would that be handled?
5. Regarding the HVR1600 itself -- as I understand it, it has one HD tuner and one analog tuner, correct? So, if I bought and installed two HVR1600 (replacing my PVR500 and PVR150), would that give me two HD and two analogy tuners? I guess I'm confused by what "analog" means when its describing what I thought was an HD tuner. Is it a separate analog tuner that just records regular TV or does it still only record some form of HD?

Playback questions:

1. Can I playback HD recordings over the MVPs? I don't care if it's really HDTV or not at the MVP end, but just want to know if it can play it.
2. I'm confused by HD playback in general. Do I have to play it back through the HVR1600 (and therefore have another direct connection from my HTPC to the TV) or would it just playback over the DVI to HDMI connection that already exists?

I hope I'm making this more complicated than it actually is. It would be great to know that I've just researched it too much and ended up confusing myself. I thought I was a fairly technical guy, and I've been able to follow most posts here without too much of an issue. But this HD thing is just giving me all kinds of mental problems. I just don't know if it's worth it or not for me to get the HVR1600 and start dabbling with HD. If it can't be used with Comcast, then it would be pretty much worthless to me, because I know that we get little to no OTA HD channels. I think that as long as it's less complicated than I'm making it out to be, I could probably get everything up and going. Afterall, I've solved quite a few of my own GBPVR problems in the past, so it's not like I'm the retard that this post is probably making me out to be. Haha.

So...if there's anyone with more knowledge (and a little patience) who can square me away on this issue, I'd greatly appreciate it. And sorry this post is so long.

[Deusxmachina]

Couple things:

You sure you can't get OTA? antennaweb.org and I think tvfool.com will show you the exact channels and distance and all that. If no one else really cares about the HD channels, I'd make sure I tried that method first. I'm 20 miles from stations and even rabbit ears work (for the most part).

I can play, as far as I know, anything on my MVP. HD will be downconverted to SD, but it plays. The only thing I've seen any trouble with is some 1080p (note: not 1080i such as TV recordings) mkv files that seem to play at like 20fps instead of 24fps. It plays and is watchable, but just isn't "slick-moving." That might be a router bandwidth thing for all I know. PC is a 2.8ghz Core2Duo. I had it at 3.2ghz for a bit and didn't notice any difference, hence maybe it's a router bandwidth thing.

HD plays back through your PC like normal SD does. There's nothing really different about playing HD other than it takes a beefier PC to play it.

[sub]

Playback of HD recordings on the MVP isnt quite as seamless as Deusxmachina's post above sounds. By default the MVP will crap out if you try to play an HD recording. If you've set it to record HD stuff using the TS Mux option (ie create .ts files), then you can set it so that it'll transcode the .ts file back to standard def during playback on the MVP. If you use a mux that produces .mpg files, then you're going to have problems watching it on the MVP, unless you set it transcode all video (which will also cause it to reencode standard def files).

[-stattik-]

Instead of removing one of your analog tuners why not look into the HD Homerun? It's external and can sit anywhere on your network. It had two tuners that can handle ATSC and/or QAM broadcasts. Since you have a Comcast service, you may likely have clear QAM of at least the major networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, PBS, etc). Deusx's OTA idea is a good one as well. That will get you the best quality.

1. No (see my comment above)
2. Depends on Comcast and QAM and I don't know if the HVR1600 supports QAM.
3. Not a pain but a takes a little more time to set up.
4. GBPVR is smart about choosing the right tuner. If you have one HD tuner and two shows are scheduled, a conflict will be reported.
5. I don't have a HVR1600.

1. Sub answered this one.
2. It would play over your DVI, HDMI connection.

[gazoo]

I'm in the central FL area Pilot. We don't have Comcast (thank God..sorry). However, I have a machine with a pvr150 (1 analog tuner) and an HVR 1600. I use the 1600 to record unencrypted QAM (over the cable) HDTV broadcast (which are, by the way, mandated by law to be sent via your cable provider.)

Those HDTV channels will most definitely be recordable by your HVR 1600's digital side. To give you an idea of what's available is the following: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX (all local versions), WB (local - Dawson's creek and that junk), your cable system's news channel (if available), countless religious channels (and they are most NOT in HD, just on the HD channel usually running at 520x480 or something of that sort), public access channels (PBS). You can forget about USA, TNT, AETV, etc. in HD....those aren't available unencrypted (at least in most areas I have heard of) but only through the STB.

So for the major networks, you can get those in shiny new 720p or 1080i programs (depending on which network), public access+religious in 480p -ish, and that's it. Everything else you can use a channel blaster to change the STB and pipe in via RCA/S-video/480i into your analog side RCA inputs of either the 1600 or 500 or 150.

However, since much of the programming I watch is on the networks, personally, it's not so bad. I get to record and watch Heroes, Law and Order(s), etc. in HDTV. You can do the same thing with an antenna to record the ATSC signal (also digital), but then you have to mess around with an antenna and hope you are close enough to a tower to get everything.

Playback is done via your DVI/HDMI connection. I use the VGA, but those are ok too. You should make sure you have a current video card and most definitely a recent dual core CPU. Many video cards have difficulty doing hardware acceleration (HA) (which would reduce the need for a high end CPU) so sticking with a dual core CPU will help you in case your video card can't keep up and software decoding of HD is necessary.

[whurlston]

I think your best bet would be to get the HDHomeRun and leave your existing tuners in place. Or if you have any PCIx slots, get the HVR-2250. Dual tuners that can be used for both analog and clear QAM (HD).

If either of your TVs has a QAM tuner in it, plug the cable directly to it (not coming out of the STB) and do a scan for channels. Any that come up with a dashed (-) or dotted (.) channel number, will be a digital channel. They can be HD or SD. Don't expect to get more than your locals though.

[Pilot]

Okay, thanks for the clarifications/advice -- I really appreciate it.

I'm worried about the HD Homerun tuner because of bandwidth issues. I have two teenagers in the house, and if one of them is online playing a game and one brain-sucking on YouTube (or worse, they're both on YouTube), I sometimes have trouble with watching a recording on my MediaMVP. When I tell one or the other of them to stop sucking down all the bandwidth, the MediaMVP performance/reliability improves significantly. Given that, shouldn't I expect the same (if not worse) bandwidth issues with using HD Homerun since its entirely network based? I've gotten to the point where I block YouTube and the port that certain online video games use during specific hours of the day. I guess if I go the HD Homerun, it would give me the justification for permanently blocking that stuff, eh? Haha.

Okay, see, here's where I don't understand some HDTV basics. So, if I use my STB from Comcast, connected to a HD tuner in my PC, it will not record th e STB's HD output? Am I reading that correctly? And if that is the case where the STB's HD output cannot be recorded, why not? Comcast provides a STB + DVR option, so obviously it's not a legal issue about recording HD content, and why would it be okay to record regular low-res content, but not HD? I'm confused. I was under the impression that I could just use an IR blaster, the (stupid) Comcast STB, and a card like the HVR1600 to record any/all HD channels that can be displayed on my HD television. Is this not the case?

Thanks, and again, forgive my HD ignorance.

[sub]

Okay, see, here's where I don't understand some HDTV basics. So, if I use my STB from Comcast, connected to a HD tuner in my PC, it will not record th e STB's HD output? Am I reading that correctly? And if that is the case where the STB's HD output cannot be recorded, why not? Comcast provides a STB + DVR option, so obviously it's not a legal issue about recording HD content, and why would it be okay to record regular low-res content, but not HD? I'm confused. I was under the impression that I could just use an IR blaster, the (stupid) Comcast STB, and a card like the HVR1600 to record any/all HD channels that can be displayed on my HD television. Is this not the case?

Regular QAM tuner cards like the HVR1600 etc do the tuning themselves, directly from the cable, and can only receive the channels that unencrypted. As pointed out above, this is only a subset of the digital channels - usually just the local channels. These cards do not have HDMI or Component video inputs, or any on-board HD encoder, so have no way to receive highdef output from your Comcast STB.

If you want to record the highdef output of a STB, pretty much your only option is to use a Hauppauge HD-PVR device, which has Component video inputs. This would allow you to capture analog 1080i/720p/480p/480i output from your STB, using the H.264 encoder to produce .ts files.

[Pilot]

I think your best bet would be to get the HDHomeRun and leave your existing tuners in place. Or if you have any PCIx slots, get the HVR-2250. Dual tuners that can be used for both analog and clear QAM (HD).

If either of your TVs has a QAM tuner in it, plug the cable directly to it (not coming out of the STB) and do a scan for channels. Any that come up with a dashed (-) or dotted (.) channel number, will be a digital channel. They can be HD or SD. Don't expect to get more than your locals though.

All three of my HDTVs seem to have QAM tuners, as my previous cable company gave us the full spectrum of HD programming for free. I could get USA, History Channel, Discovery, A&E, SpikeTV, HGTV, Food Network, etc., all in HD in addtion to the normal broadcast. Of course, Comcast (the worst plague of the entire cable TV industry) doesn't do the same thing, and they charge you extra per month and require you to use a STB to get ANY HD channels, including the local network affiliates. I had heard that they were legally required to provide the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX) in HD free of charge as long as you subcribed to basic cable and the local network affiliates were broadcasting in HD. Comcast corrected me that it is not a law, and if I want to receive anything in HD over their cable, I would have to pay the upgrade fee and install a STB on every HD TV in my house.

So I get nothing HD over regular basic cable. Everything HD has to come from a STB. I do have one of those for the main TV (because again, everyone else in my family doesn't really care for some WEIRD reason), but I'm a little confused on how compatible it will be with any HD tuner card I purchased.

[whurlston]

If they offer no clear QAM channels in HD, then a HD tuner card will be a waste of money for you. You will need something like the HD-PVR (HVR-1212) in order to record HD from the STB.

And they are correct that the law does not state they have to provide the local HD stations in the clear. If they provide it via unencrypted analog, they have met their requirements.

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/archives...ments.html

For a period of at least three years after the February 17, 2009 transition from analog to digital broadcasting, cable operators will be required to make the signals of local broadcast stations available to all of their subscribers by either: (1) carrying the television station's digital signal in an analog format, or (2) carrying the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content.