2.2.6, Hauppauge DCR-2650, and Channel Numbers, Names, & EPG Sources

[BrettB]

When I added the DCR-2650 to my system last night, I came up with a few questions about exactly how it is working and how it should (ideally) be configured. When I went into the device configuration for the 1st tuner, I did a Scan. The scan resulted in a channel listing which appears to be every channel on my cable company's lineup (plus a few extras which appear to be test, diagnostic, etc. from their names). NPVR gave them channel numbers which match the channel numbers published by the cable company. That seems good. And it gave them channel names which I will call "short descriptions." Sometimes these "short descriptions" are just a broadcast channel's call sign (i.e. "WCCO"), other times it is supposed to be a "friendly version" of a call sign (i.e. "WCCO HD" whose call sign in Schedules Direct is "WCCODT"), and other times it is a longer description (i.e. "National Geographic HD" whose call sign in Schedules Direct is "NGCHD").

So, now the questions:

1. When NPVR gets the channel listing from the cable company, does it just have the logical channel number and this "short description" or does it also have a "call sign" which would/should match the Schedules Direct "call sign"?

2. Since I was adding new channels to an already setup channel listing with channels already configured for XMLTV EPG source, I couldn't use the bulk map feature. However, even if I could have, I don't think that it would have been very successful since (I believe) that it would be trying to match the "short descriptions" from the DCR-2650 to the "call signs" from the Schedules Direct XMLTV file, correct? In these CableCard cases where the logical channels are coming from the cable company and directly match the Schedules Direct cable lineup channel numbers, I think that the matching should be done on the channel numbers. How do you do it with something like the HD-PVR?

3. In NPVR, the channel names tend to be expected (by skins in TV Guide, recordings info, etc.) to be shorter like the "call sign" (i.e. "NGCHD") rather than medium-length like the "short descriptions" (i.e. "National Geographic HD") coming from my cable company. So, my initial thought was to go and change all of the channel names in NPVR to be the "call sign" from the Schedules Direct XMLTV file. But then I got worried about what would happen when (not IF--WHEN) the cable company makes changes to the lineup. I'm presuming that NPVR won't just automatically detect and adjust for it like set-top boxes do. Instead, I expect I'll have to go into the device and do another scan. But then how will NPVR match up the old channels currently used in the database (for recurring recordings, existing recordings, etc.) to the new channels now coming from the cable company lineup? You couldn't use the channel numbers since they might have changed. So I'm thinking that you will have to use the "short description" which is coming from the cable company/DCR-2650. Now, if I have changed the channel names in NPVR from the "short description" to the "call sign" from the Schedules Direct XMLTV file, they won't match up, and it will look like there are all of these new channels, right? Argh!

[sub]

This is complicated issues around some of this stuff, so I dont have all the answers at this stage.

1. When NPVR gets the channel listing from the cable company, does it just have the logical channel number and this "short description" or does it also have a "call sign" which would/should match the Schedules Direct "call sign"?

For each channel NPVR gets only a channel name and a channel number during its scan. I dont get any long description or other forms of the name.

2. Since I was adding new channels to an already setup channel listing with channels already configured for XMLTV EPG source, I couldn't use the bulk map feature. However, even if I could have, I don't think that it would have been very successful since (I believe) that it would be trying to match the "short descriptions" from the DCR-2650 to the "call signs" from the Schedules Direct XMLTV file, correct? In these CableCard cases where the logical channels are coming from the cable company and directly match the Schedules Direct cable lineup channel numbers, I think that the matching should be done on the channel numbers.

At the moment it can only try auto-mapping the EPG for you based on a channel names. Traditionally NextPVR not tried auto-mapping this based on channel numbers, since we typically dont have the channel numbers (like QAM channels, or even the epg sources like xmltv).

If you want to supply me a zipped copy of your npvr.db3, and your c:\users\public\npvr\schedulesdirect.xml, then I can try to add a special case for these new DCR-2650/Prime mappings to attempt mapping by channel number.

How do you do it with something like the HD-PVR?

The HD-PVR doesnt have this problem, because all the channels were typically imported from Schedules Direct or XMLTV rather than being scanned, so they're already mapped to the correct EPG source.

3. In NPVR, the channel names tend to be expected (by skins in TV Guide, recordings info, etc.) to be shorter like the "call sign" (i.e. "NGCHD") rather than medium-length like the "short descriptions" (i.e. "National Geographic HD") coming from my cable company. So, my initial thought was to go and change all of the channel names in NPVR to be the "call sign" from the Schedules Direct XMLTV file. But then I got worried about what would happen when (not IF--WHEN) the cable company makes changes to the lineup. I'm presuming that NPVR won't just automatically detect and adjust for it like set-top boxes do. Instead, I expect I'll have to go into the device and do another scan. But then how will NPVR match up the old channels currently used in the database (for recurring recordings, existing recordings, etc.) to the new channels now coming from the cable company lineup? You couldn't use the channel numbers since they might have changed. So I'm thinking that you will have to use the "short description" which is coming from the cable company/DCR-2650. Now, if I have changed the channel names in NPVR from the "short description" to the "call sign" from the Schedules Direct XMLTV file, they won't match up, and it will look like there are all of these new channels, right? Argh!

Generally the Schedules Direct / XMLTV EPG mappings are done based on the SD 'station identifier' or xmltv 'channel id', and can survive changes to channel name or number as long as the identifiers dont change. For example, SD identifies WJBK as 11569, and this doesnt change.

If they do change the channel number though, then chances are you'll need to delete the channel and rescan for it.

[BrettB]

This is complicated issues around some of this stuff, so I dont have all the answers at this stage.
...
If they do change the channel number though, then chances are you'll need to delete the channel and rescan for it.

I realize that this is all new, somewhat different, and complicated. I'm trying to post things as I come across them in an effort to help you and others make NextPVR that much better. If there are ever things that it would be helpful for me to do/try, etc., please let me know.

So, I guess that, at this point, NPVR won't really do any automated cable line-up (channel #) changes. Then if I go in and change the channel names to be the "call signs" so that they will display OK in the TV Guide (and also match the current logo file names), it shouldn't really be any more of a problem in the future, right?

[sub]

You should be able to change the channel names without any problems.

[BrettB]

If you want to supply me a zipped copy of your npvr.db3, and your c:\users\public\npvr\schedulesdirect.xml, then I can try to add a special case for these new DCR-2650/Prime mappings to attempt mapping by channel number.

Here's a copy of my database and a sample XMLTV file from last night.

[sub]

You forgot to attach them.

[BrettB]

You forgot to attach them.

Actually, I think that I tried to attach the .zip file, but it was too big, and I just didn't notice the little error message...

So, last night, I started with an empty database, and just setup the 2 DCR-2650 tuners. In the attached .zip, there is the npvr-scanonly.db3 file at that point.

Next, I used the bulk map channels function to set the EPG for channel 2 to be Schedules Direct, entered my account info, etc. When it prompted me, I told it to go ahead and try to auto-match channels. As we knew, it only matched a few where the channel name (from the DCR-2650 channel lineup) exactly matched the Schedules Direct callSign.

But, the Schedules Direct xml does have the cable company's logical channel mapping to the EPG station IDs. Here's a sample from the included schedulesdirect.xml:

Code:

-<lineup type="CableDigital" id="MN58526:X" postalCode="55106" device="Digital" location="Saint Paul" name="Comcast">
<map from="2001-12-13" channel="31" station="10021"/>
<map from="2001-12-13" channel="36" station="10035"/>
<map from="2001-12-13" channel="39" station="10051"/>
<map from="2001-12-13" channel="47" station="10057"/>
<map from="2001-12-13" channel="46" station="10093"/>

At a minimum, for the CableCard devices, NPVR should be able to automatically do that channel mapping to EPG data.

Ideally, I would also really like to see an option to automate the changing of the channel names in NPVR from the name coming from cable lineup to the callSign coming from the Schedules Direct xml file. There are 2 main reasons for this request:

1. Many of the default channel names from the cable lineup are somewhat lengthy and don't fit in the allocated spaces on the TV Guide listing, recording listings, etc. The callsigns are short and do fit nicely.
   
   
2. The SD callSigns are going to be standardized and common all across North America. Having these standardized and matching the SD callSigns would:
   • give us a much better chance of having channels from different capture sources match up automatically. (OTA ATSC channels here normally have their callsign as their name--although some have "-DT" instead of just "DT" at the end, etc. Not perfect, but better. And if HD-PVR channels were imported from a Schedules Direct lineup, they would have the callsigns for their names, too, right?)
     
   • allow us to have a set of all the (common) channel logos for stations in the SD listings. Then all that a new user would have to do is extract the logo files and put them in the media\channels directory, and presto, all of the channels would have nice looking logos!
     

[sub]

Having looked at your data, your names seem to be much worse than the other examples I've seen. For example, with the CableVision setup I tested on, the channels largely match the SD callsigns, with only about dozen or so channels varying slightly. So some users may not have had as much of an issue with this.

You could see if this patch helps with the numbering/naming when it attempts the auto matching. Probably best to try it on a fresh database first.

[BrettB]

You could see if this patch helps with the numbering/naming when it attempts the auto matching. Probably best to try it on a fresh database first.

OK, this patch is better, but still didn't match all of the channels it should/could have. I used a new database. Database, schedulesdirect.xml, and npvr.log file attached.

A couple of other observations:

1. When the bulk map is doing its matching, I think that it may need a wait-cursor. At first I just had the regular cursor, and no indication that anything was happening. After a few seconds, I moved the mouse, and then the screen dimmed and the window indicated the program wasn't responding. Then it gave me a wait-cursor. After a while, when it finished processing, it all went back to normal.
   
2. The 1st channel that I had manually matched on the bulk map screen was channel 2. When the automatic process was finished and went back to the channels list, the mapping for channel 2 to SchedulesDirect EPG wasn't saved.
   

[sub]

OK, this patch is better, but still didn't match all of the channels it should/could have.

I haven't got time right now to load it up and try you database, but can you give me a general description of what didnt match? Was it many channels, and was there something obvious about these channels that caused them not to map? Were those channels listed in the drop down list of schedules direct mapping options?