Cannot detect HVR-950

[mvallevand]

Launched desktop client - as soon as I did that the tray icon went red.
...
As soon as exited the desktop app the tray icon went green again.

I explained this already in another thread red means recording including live tv, green means not recording and grey means the server is not running. 

Martin

[tmittelstaedt]

Launched desktop client - as soon as I did that the tray icon went red.
...
As soon as exited the desktop app the tray icon went green again.

I explained this already in another thread red means recording including live tv, green means not recording and grey means the server is not running. 

Martin

Not an issue I wouldn't have noticed it at all if I hadn't gone down the wrong rabbit hole.

[tmittelstaedt]

I can't start nextpvr.exe at the moment ... from memory ... Settings -> Decoders has a link at the bottom pointing to the decoders.html page.

NextPVR.exe is a stopgap pending delivery of a new NextPVR player app.

You are correct that it is only nextpvr.exe that requires decoders.  NextPVR Server produces streams that are comptible with the built-in decoders used by web browsers, Android and iOS.
.

When writing software for idiots like me you have to make it idiot proof. It's easy enough to check the list of codecs installed on the machine during the installation and toss a popup if you don't see a recommended config. The website recommends LAV so if LAV decoders aren't present then point it out and let the user override your recommendation.

The entire thing with codecs is total fragging BS anyway. DeCSS was legally published (in the United States) in a book a number of years ago by the EFF to demonstrate that the inventors of it have no legal right to demand royalties for anyone else's implementation of the algorithm. It is a crying shame that courts don't understand this because if they did they would be throwing out these takedown requests right and left and we wouldn't need to resort to this BS of distributing alternative implementations separately. But I'm sure you already know all this. The point though is that the newbie installing it for the first time won't. It won't hurt to smack them upside the head with a reminder a few times during the installation.

[mvallevand]

When sub rewrote the installer for v5 I originally asked him to also download and install LAV but that isn't a requirement for the server that is only a requirement for the client which is being rewritten anyway. For some users the MS decoders do work so adding it would be extra bloat plus if sub installed it wouldn't he have been responsible for removing it to escape your wrath? That would evolve a prompt and will a newbie know whether they should uninstall it or not?

I for one don't use the NextPVR client and I don't want prompts about the client requirements etc. The install zip is already bloated enough with the all the things sub is doing to make the install easier. It is 91MB and growing. In comparison the linux install zip is 18MB

On the decoder setup page in NextPVR there is a hot link to the decoder page on the NextPVR web site. Perhaps this does need to be spelled out better on the install page or on the wiki as it evolves.

Martin

[tmittelstaedt]

When sub rewrote the installer for v5 I originally asked him to also download and install LAV but that isn't a requirement for the server that is only a requirement for the client which is being rewritten anyway. For some users the MS decoders do work so adding it would be extra bloat plus if sub installed it wouldn't he have been responsible for removing it to escape your wrath? That would evolve a prompt and will a newbie know whether they should uninstall it or not?

I for one don't use the NextPVR client and I don't want prompts about the client requirements etc. The install zip is already bloated enough with the all the things sub is doing to make the install easier. It is 91MB and growing. In comparison the linux install zip is 18MB

On the decoder setup page in NextPVR there is a hot link to the decoder page on the NextPVR web site. Perhaps this does need to be spelled out better on the install page or on the wiki as it evolves.

Martin

In the windows world the standard is to install dependencies and leave them behind. So you install a program that needs .NET 3.5 for example it will install it but when you uninstall that program .NET is left behind. It's not like FreeBSD or Linux which make a lot of effort to remove dependent programs unless there's other software that uses them. Windows seems to have no mechanism that is universally honored by installers that lists what dependencies are required for what.

So if you want to incur my wrath then write a Linux program that DOESEN'T clean up dependencies when you uninstall it, or write a windows program that DOES remove dependencies. I know, not very consistent, but it follows the "do what everyone else does" rule of installers.

I'm not saying to pack the LAV software with NextPVR. Just throw up a notice that if you are going to install the desktop viewer you must have a decoder. If you want to get fancy list the detected decoders and give an OK button to click you can pull the subroutine for that right out of MediaInfo:
https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

Or, unbundle the desktop viewer program and have 2 downloads. One is the server, the other is the desktop viewer plus decoders plus mediainfo

Most windows users are likely using machines that have Cyberlink's PowerDVD decoder installed plus they likely have a lot of VC redistributable libraries installed already. So they don't understand the issues about codecs at all in desktop software since it was already handled for them. I daresay the entire reason Microsoft got rid of the windows dvd player and disabled it's codec is because they were having to pay 2 license fees, one for the codec buried in Edge and one for the desktop software codec for each copy of windows. Since Cyberlink has OEM deals with Dell and HP and was already supplying a desktop codec, they figured "why do we need this" Plus there is all the copy protection garbage and hassle from the MPAA that Cyberlink has to deal with. For example the latest versions of Cyberlink PowerDVD won't even play ISO copies of movies directly anymore. Sure, you can mount the ISO on a drive letter and then PowerDVD will play it but it used to be able to play the ISO without doing that. The MPAA forced them to drop that feature because of programs like AnyDVD. Microsoft likely was more than happy to turn it's back on that.

[mvallevand]

I will argue that point "Most windows users are likely using machines that have Cyberlink's PowerDVD decoder installed" but I will counter that users that do have it installed, have so much vendor provided bloatware and misc. crap on their machine they wouldn't care if NextPVR left a registry setting. I agree the service not being installed is a no-no but NextPVR and GBPVR before it went through a decade with no uninstaller and there weren't many comments raised.

Sub already enumerates the codecs, he knows what he is doing. There are prompts when the MS Decoder doesn't work too. At this point NextPVR.exe is "legacy" so making suggestions to make it better while valuable 5 years ago might not be that useful now. I will go back to the concept of one developer offering free software as a hobby that need to be considered.

BTW there is nothing stopping you from writing an alternative NSIS installer for NextPVR if you are so inclined there is no black magic involved.

Martin

[sub]

Normally you'd get an on screen message in the player telling you if you have a missing decoder that is required. I just checked it, and it's not working at the moment, so I'll fix it.

The lack of these on-screen messages at the moment is probably making things a lot less clear for tmittelstaedt.