ATSC 3.0 support - HDHomeRun Flex 4K

[mvallevand]

Your biggest problem seem to be trying to run V5 in parallel with an older version. Sub's supported method is to run only one version of a time and then client discover will work as expected, assuming.

You definitely need to learn the forum search, I agree things could be better but I don't know how to make posts sticky. Remote use including access to settings are explained here https://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?tid=62464

1 - The live TV startup issue is Roku only, even their own apps start much slower (check the bar on the bottom) because they need to buffer a lot.

2 - Any audio lag would be in the h/w I have no control, but wifi might play a part

3 - Pass through audio by nature will only work if the pass through device supports AC-4. Of the Roku's only the Ultra can decode AC-4

4 - See my above note for a link to the keyboard reference.

5 - If Roku doesn't provide track selection via the * key then no, their player is very limited. You get much more power on Android UI clients.

Martin

[BrettB]

Your biggest problem seem to be trying to run V5 in parallel with an older version.  Sub's supported method is to run only one version of a time and then client discover will work as expected, assuming.

Yes, running them in parallel and having v4 as the "primary" (i.e. using the 8866 port), will make your life unnecessarily complicated.

You will have similar issues with other clients like Kodi, uidroid, sub's iOS/Android clients, etc. All use the same server discovery method and then default to the 8866 port. And most will only work with v5 at this point. So, if you must have both versions running in parallel, it would be better for you to have the v5 server on port 8866 and move the old v4 server to a different port.

Also, in response to your earlier question about "Remote Access": For the most part this question is intended to mean "via the Internet". So, from your local LAN you should not need to enable Remote Access. One caveat here is that sub's assumptions are (or at least were) that the "LAN" is only the one subnet that the server is on and that the subnet is one of the non-routable IP network ranges (10.0.0.0/8, 172.16.0.0/12, 192.168.0.0/16). If your LAN is more complicated (with multiple sub-nets, VLANs, using different ports, etc.) then some of the normal, automatic functions (like server discovery, default usernames/passwords/PINs, auto-login for the local LAN, etc.) may not work as expected. Normally these things can be worked around with things like the manual configuration which you have already discovered.

[sub]

Then there is the "Remote Access" section, talking about "if you are intending to access NextPVR over the internet...". Well, does that mean only from outside in the world, outside of my home LAN network? Or does that include devices like Roku within my own home LAN? I would think of that as my "network", not really of the "internet" which kind of suggests outside external access

It's talking about access over the Internet. Your LAN is not the Internet. It's referring to external access.

So overall I'd say this is fabulous! Given this level of success with the Roku client I will explore the ATV4K client and the Android client

To save you a little bit of time investigating...
1) the NextPVR Apple TV application does not work with AC-4.
2) the NextPVR Android app (on the Play Store) also does not work with AC-4.

I'm not 100% sure whether alternative Android UiDroid application works with AC-4 on some devices. I think this may support AC-4 in some cases. UiDroid is this one here: https://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php?tid=63151

(Note that I also have NextPVR v4 installed and running on the same machine, but that should be irrelevant, right?)

As the guys mentioned, this is what made it seem hard for you. In reality, if you'd only had v5 installed (and on it's default port etc), the Roku app would most likely have just auto-detected NextPVR and connected.

[DSperber]

Thanks to all for the insights and tips and recommendations. I've actually made some very good testing progress.  Yes, I do appreciate that having v4 and v5 both installed is contributing to my startup problems but I've been able to overcome all of them. So all of my NextPVR client experiments have steered clear of v4 and connected to v5, even if I did have to manually type in the URL.

Anyway, as was predicted with the "I'll save you the trouble" tips, there's precious little out there currently which supports AC-4 audio. In fact so far I've had ZERO luck with NextPVR and audio from the ATSC 3.0 channels. In my test matrix so far only the HDHR app from SD installed on Win10 had produced sound as well as video.

Here are my results as of this morning using NextPVR clients:

(1) NextPVR app on Roku Ultra 2020 (4800) and LG OLED C7 (2160p):
  ATSC 1.0 channels - good video and audio
  ATSC 3.0 KTLA HD 105.1 - good video, no audio
  ATSC 3.1 KTTV NX 111.1 - good video, no audio 

(2) NextPVR app on Roku Ultra 2017 (4660) and Samsung J6300 (1080p):
  ATSC 1.0 channels - good video, no audio!!!
  ATSC 3.0 KTLA HD 105.1 - no video, no audio
  ATSC 3.1 KTTV NX 111.1 - no video, no audio 
NOTE: these results differ from the Roku Ultra 2020 results, both for audio and
video. The NextPVR app itself may require some hardware capability that is not
present in the older 2017 (4660) Roku Ultra, and/or it might have something to do
with the 1080p TV display with its stereo speakers. Don't know, but it's doomed.

(3) NextPVR app on Win10
  ATSC 1.0 channels - good video and audio
  ATSC 3.0 KTLA HD 105.1 - no video, no audio (no HEVC codec issue)
  ATSC 3.1 KTTV NX 111.1 - no video, no audio (no HEVC codec issue) 

NOTE: I have purchased/installed the 'HEVC Video Extensions" product from the MS
Store ($0.99), which was required before the HDHR Win10 app would display ATSC 3.0
video correctly. However it doesn't seem recognized by NextPVR as being available
for use. I also downloaded/installed a second 32-bit HEVC Video Extension product (free)
from Free-Codecs.com. But again it doesn't seem recognized by NextPVR. There is
still nothing but the "Disabled" showing on the HEVC Video dropdown list. I don't know
if the MS HEVC codec ix x64, which I think is not usable by NextPVR. But the second
HEVC codec I installed is definitely the x86 version, and yet it still isn't showing up
or being usable. Clearly this is why NextPVR is not able to display video on Win10.

(4) NextPVR app on Samsung S21 Ultra (Android 12.0):
  ATSC 1.0 channels - good video and audio
  ATSC 3.0 KTLA HD 105.1 - no video, no audio (streaming failed error)
  ATSC 3.1 KTTV NX 111.1 - no video, no audio (streaming failed error) 

==> BOTTOM LINE: no acceptable support for ATSC 3.0 in any of them
(I still have to try NextPVR client for ATV4K and Shield, but
Shield is another Android device)

[sub]

NOTE: I have purchased/installed the 'HEVC Video Extensions" product from the MS
Store ($0.99), which was required before the HDHR Win10 app would display ATSC 3.0
video correctly. However it doesn't seem recognized by NextPVR as being available
for use. I also downloaded/installed a second 32-bit HEVC Video Extension product (free)
from Free-Codecs.com. But again it doesn't seem recognized by NextPVR. There is
still nothing but the "Disabled" showing on the HEVC Video dropdown list. I don't know
if the MS HEVC codec ix x64, which I think is not usable by NextPVR. But the second
HEVC codec I installed is definitely the x86 version, and yet it still isn't showing up
or being usable. Clearly this is why NextPVR is not able to display video on Win10

Did you try installing the LAV decoders? These are the most widely used decoders. The official install location for these is:
https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFilters...taller.exe

[mvallevand]

I apologize I wasn't clear only the Roku Ultra 2021 added support for AC-4

If you don't get video with Roku it is because your device doesn't support HEVC If you don't get AC-3 or AC-4 audio it is also the device capabilities.

Besides posting read the responses. You need to install LAV32 https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFilters/releases to get HEVC support. It won't get you AC-4 support. If you want that you need the Extra tuner support.

Martin

[DSperber]

Grrr... I'm now forced to take an unexpected side-trip. Turns out the ATV4K app does not actually USE the manually set IP address I enter, with the 8867 port number.

I complete the entry of the first line with 192.168.1.26:8867, and also enter the proper PIN number on the second line. All looks perfect.

Than I push the ADD SERVER button and it goes ahead and briefly flashes the IP address with 8866 in it, instead of my 8867 data entry value. And of course this fails to connect (actually it eventually connects to v4, which is on 8866 and not what I want).

I suppose there's really no reason for me to retain v4 any longer. I'm not using it for real anyway. I've just uninstalled it, and reverted config.xml for v5 back to 8866. Of course I will now have to change the IP address/port values for the other clients I've previously installed (and tested) to 8866 as well, but I guess this is just the time to do this.

Still disappointing that the iOS app doesn't seem to absorb my 8867 port number entry even though that's what's shown on the screen.

And I will install the LAV decoders, and see whether something shows up in Settings -> Decoders -> HEVC video after that.

[DSperber]

I apologize I wasn't clear only the Roku Ultra 2021 added support for AC-4

If you don't get video with Roku it is because your device doesn't support HEVC  If you don't get AC-3 or AC-4 audio it is also the device capabilities.

Where do you see that the Roku Ultra 2021 has support for AC-4 added? I can't find that in writing. I mean they're selling it for $75 so I'd consider just getting one, if it actually did solve this problem. But I'd like to see that in a spec somewhere.

Also, the 2020 and 2021 models are both 4800R, so what's the difference? And is HEVC support supposed to be in either model's hardware? Or not, meaning it can never be used to present HEVC?

Anyway, although I like the Roku remote more than the ATV4K or Shield remotes, I would go with whichever one eventually produces reliable output of ATSC 3.0 audio and video. So far I've not found that winner.

[DSperber]

Ok. I'm back.

In fact the installation of the LAVFilters package DID fix the HEVC codec problem with NextPVR! The "LAV Video Decoder" item now appears in the dropdown and I selected it. And sure enough there is now video presented when playing an ATSC 3.0 channel. WHEW! One down.

I still think it should be explored why both the "HEVC Video Extensions" purchase from the MS Store, as well as the free "HEVC Video Extension - x86" didn't produce the same addition to the dropdown. Is it an x86 vs. x64 problem? Or is it just not installed properly or in whatever way that NextPVR can find it and present it in the dropdown? It sure solved the same problem with HDHR which wanted the HEVC codec, and was then happy when I installed the MS Store product. So why not NextPVR? I think this should be at least investigated.

However there still is no sound. The missing AC-4 codec simply appears nowhere, yet.

Except that Silicon Dust just sent out an email today announcing big breakthroughs in AC-4 support for all of their client apps, even when the device lacks an actual AC-4 codec.

Now my own experience with the Win10 HDHR app differs from what today's announcement claims. For some reason today I'm only getting sound and video from 105.1, whereas on channel 111.1 I'm only getting video and no sound. This is very strange. Yesterday when I was playing around and gathering MediaInfo displays from recordings made from all the channels I DID have sound from 111.1's recording MPG file. But today, the same MPG files from 111.1 no longer produce sound. Can't imagine what they might have changed in their stream which would produce that kind of symptom.

Also, I still haven't gotten to testing with Shield and ATV4K, for both HDHR and NextPVR. So I don't know if the Shield will support HEVC and/or AC-4 audio. But I think the ATV4K should. We shall see, but later today.

[mvallevand]

In your earlier post you talk about Apple TV and ios even though we have told they won't work for you. 

Yes there is an issue saving manual settings in the Apple app the last time I tested, maybe sub needs to look at it again.

I don't plan on searching but my 2021 Ultra plays AC4.  If you upload a small sample to OneDrive I can tell you if it works.  I can't guarantee the Roku app will work after March.

I've told you too many times in this thread how to get sound from ATSC 3 if you really need it.

Martin