new hardware needed... not sure what...

[V_J]

Hello,

For a long time I was using a Compro e900f as DVB-T tuner for NextPVR. I wasn't using it much recently (lack of time, good programs and availability of netflix), but it was nice to have, for news or some live reports. Now, DVB-T has been switched off in favour of DVB-T2, so if I want to keep DVB-T I will have to upgrade. I have a satellite dish but it is not connected at the moment as reception is difficult and most of the free to air channels on DVB-T2 are not broadcasted FTA on DVB-S - my DVB-S receiver is a Technisat SkyStar HD (it is seen in Windows but as it is not connected I'm not sure if it receives well).
For viewing, I use a projector in one room and a TV in another room, both connected to the same HTPC (the TV is not connected to terrestrial nor satellite).

So I'm looking at some tuner replacement solution... I could forgo the whole thing as I was not using it much anyway, but it is fun to play with such things.

An additional aspect is that I started having a use for the analog inputs (composite/component) of the e900f, but cannot get them to work. Even though the driver is a signed Windows 10 driver, I cannot get a signal on the analog inputs - I've tried various software but will still test further - next weekend I'll reinstall Windows. It would be nice to have the card as capture card, but I may have to write it off - I may still post with questions on the capture part though .

Initially I thought of getting a network tuner, but that would still leave me without the capture functionality. New PCIe cards seem to be missing the analog inputs, USB tuners also do not have them... And a sat-receiver such as a GigaBlue 4k Trio is not that much more expensive than a USB receiver and would receive both dvb-s and dvb-t2. It should work as a Sat>IP server, allowing me to receive the channels on NextPVR (also directly on the TV, without using the htpc if I connect the decoder to the TV).
I could complement it with a simple usb capture device (capture is not for high quality purposes) and consider both aspects separately.

The Hauppauge hvr5525 seems to be the best match to my current card, including capture, dvb-t2 and even dvb-s https://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/product...r5525.html
It is a single tuner, but given that everything is broadcasted on three muxes, I assume I can record and watch as long as the channel is on the same mux?

The TBS5520SE Multi-standard TV Tuner USB Box seems to be a good usb option, foregoing the analog inputs but supporting dvb-s2x (but I don't know if I need this ever).

A bit of a lengthy story story, and I'll have to figure it out.... Just to help me a bit:
- Does a dvb-s receiver which claims to be a Sat>IP server work with NextPVR?
- Any benefits to PCIe tuner cards (quality/stability wise)?
- Is watching one channel and recording another possible if both are on the same mux on dvb-t2?
- Do usb-capture devices do an adequate job?

Thanks!

[sub]

A bit of a lengthy story story, and I'll have to figure it out.... Just to help me a bit:
- Does a dvb-s receiver which claims to be a Sat>IP server work with NextPVR?

NextPVR can work with SAT>IP servers.

SAT>IP seems to be dying. Last time I looked, I couldn't find one actually for sale. A few sites had them listed, but out of stock or discontinued.

- Is watching one channel and recording another possible if both are on the same mux on dvb-t2?[quote]Yes.

[quote]- Any benefits to PCIe tuner cards (quality/stability wise)?

In relation to SAT>IP, the PCIe/USB tuners can do all the channels on the same mux. With SAT>IP you can only do a single channel at a time.

(this used to be different, with NextPVR able to do other channels on the mux at same time with SAT>IP too, but this hasn't worked for a while)

- Do usb-capture devices do an adequate job?

Yes.

[mvallevand]

- Do usb-capture devices do an adequate job?

Yes.

I would say yes, no and maybe.  On Windows if you mean only Hauppauge HDPVRs yes.  If you mean the cheap MMJPEG capture devices that are primary for OBS capturing and brands other than Hauppauge it will really depend on the device you choose.  I have one that craps out after 10 minutes and one that captures for hours.  Then depending on your use case you may need to transcode it.   

Martin

[sub]

By "usb-capture devices" I was interpreting this as meaning usb DVB-T/DVB-T2/DVB-S/DVB-S2 tuners.

My brain blanked out the paragraph about analog capture, since NextPVR v5 doesn't really support analog capture.

[V_J]

Thanks for the answers. It seems like the Sat>IP route is not the one to go for me.
Do I understand well that other network based tuners (e.g. hdhomerun) may be better, but only serve computer/android/ios clients or maybe also dlna clients? Is there a standard for those or it needs specific support from the client software for the specific tuner?

I was initially more tempted to go PCIe (e.g. the Hauppauge hvr5525 I posted), but USB may be more flexible: use on other computers, a NAS or maybe even on a Docker with USB device pass-through - that latter aspect could allow me to setup a server in Docker). The only thing missing from the Hauppauge is DVB-S2X (don't know if I need this)... the TBS5520SE seems like a good usb alternative for a tuner at more or less the same price of the Hauppauge; it adds DVB-S2X but misses analog inputs. Generally it does look like this market is much smaller than it used to be... Are those two potentially good choices?

In another thread you mentioned that NextPVR runs on some linuxboxes... any references or suggestions (vu+? dreambox?), as that may also be an option...?

Sorry to mess up with the analog capure devices. Good to know that the cheap analog capture devices are something to stay away from - of course not a big surprise but it is easy to fall into the trap "why wouldn't it work", especially as it is something I more want to play with than use much.

[BrettB]

Thanks for the answers. It seems like the Sat>IP route is not the one to go for me.
Do I understand well that other network based tuners (e.g. hdhomerun) may be better, but only serve computer/android/ios clients or maybe also dlna clients? Is there a standard for those or it needs specific support from the client software for the specific tuner?

I was initially more tempted to go PCIe (e.g. the Hauppauge  hvr5525 I posted), but USB may be more flexible: use on other computers, a NAS or maybe even on a Docker with USB device pass-through - that latter aspect could allow me to setup a server in Docker).

At this point in time, I would say that the HDHomeRun devices are probably about the best option for support and flexibility. As you mention, PCIe and USB devices are going to be "tied" to specific server hardware while the network based HDHR can be accessed from basically any device on your network (including virtual machines like a Docker device on a NAS, etc.).

I'm not sure what you mean by "but only serve computer/android/ios clients". When using NextPVR, the NextPVR server (whether it is Windows, linux, Mac, Docker, etc.) does all of the communication with the tuner device (i.e. HDHR). So any NextPVR client would be able to "use" the HDHR tuner via the NextPVR server. Now, the HDHR firmware does support DLNA clients directly. But, if you have multiple "clients" (i.e. DLNA on say a Smart TV and NextPVR server) trying to use the same tuners at the same time, you are likely to run into conflicts. It is best to stick to a single device (i.e. NextPVR server) connecting to the HDHR and then serving the resource to other end-user clients.

[mvallevand]

Many European user like the extra flexibility of SAT>IP devices (which are networked) over the HDHR because of the options for CAM access etc. This would be similar to the support in the US for CableCard (which is sadly on life support) This seems to be the direction that TVHeadend users for LibreElec are taking.

The key with these devices for me is that no device firmware needs to installed on the client or in the OS kernel, but the downside is the wall wart and network connections that is needed. For Docker use I would definitely suggest SAT>IP or HDHR over a physical device since you don't know what support you have in the host.

Martin

[V_J]

At this point in time, I would say that the HDHomeRun devices are probably about the best option for support and flexibility. As you mention, PCIe and USB devices are going to be "tied" to specific server hardware while the network based HDHR can be accessed from basically any device on your network (including virtual machines like a Docker device on a NAS, etc.).

True... But I won't have many client devices... At the moment, my HTPC doubles as media server and outputs both to my projector and to a TV in another room via an extender... Perhaps a computer or mobile device could become a client as well, although I don't see that happening often. The PCIe solution would be the most "tied" to a server hardware as e.g. a raspberry pi as server is out of the question, where this could be an option with usb or a network tuner.

I'm not sure what you mean by "but only serve computer/android/ios clients". When using NextPVR, the NextPVR server (whether it is Windows, linux, Mac, Docker, etc.) does all of the communication with the tuner device (i.e. HDHR). So any NextPVR client would be able to "use" the HDHR tuner via the NextPVR server. Now, the HDHR firmware does support DLNA clients directly. But, if you have multiple "clients" (i.e. DLNA on say a Smart TV and NextPVR server) trying to use the same tuners at the same time, you are likely to run into conflicts. It is best to stick to a single device (i.e. NextPVR server) connecting to the HDHR and then serving the resource to other end-user clients.

You answered my question: so it does support dlna clients (this is more than what I thought, I though the only clients would be computers or phones/tablets), but indeed NextPVR would take care of that. Of course, if NextPVR is the only client that should connect to the network tuner, then the HDHR is quite tied to the NextPVR hardware... Perhaps not in the physical connection but for sure in the logical one - but it does open more options than usb or pcie if needed.

At the moment I don't have a NAS that supports a TV tuner, but I don't think I'll go that route. My future planning would be to upgrade the HTPC (also used for light gaming), and then repurpose that computer as a server. But this is not planned anytime soon.

Many European user like the extra flexibility of SAT>IP devices (which are networked) over the HDHR because of the options for CAM access etc. This would be similar to the support in the US for CableCard (which is sadly on life support) This seems to be the direction that TVHeadend users for LibreElec are taking.

The key with these devices for me is that no device firmware needs to installed on the client or in the OS kernel, but the downside is the wall wart and network connections that is needed. For Docker use I would definitely suggest SAT>IP or HDHR over a physical device since you don't know what support you have in the host.

Martin

Cabling is not an issue for me (cat 6 ethernet everwhere). For Docker you are right that a networked solution is the most certain, especially as I'm running Docker on a Windows host which is more limited than Linux (pcie pass through, host networking, ...). CAM access at the moment is not something that is of interest to me.

I'm also not a big TV watcher, so I know any solution would not be used that frequently although if it works well it can be nice on occasion (NextPVR really helps with that :-)).

The SAT>IP route is cheaper than I expected, with Gigablue boxes (e.g. UHD Trio 4k having dvb-t2 and dvb-s2x for barely more than the PCIe solution, which is why I started wondering.
I'm leaning towards the PCIe card as it would most closely resemble what I have now and I feel confident I on how it will work (still some uncertainties on how well I would manage to get e.g. SAT>IP working in my situation - I cannot put the box close to where my htpc is, nor close to the TV). And it comes with good analog capture and it would be the cheapest option...

[sub]

The SAT>IP route is cheaper than I expected, with Gigablue boxes (e.g. UHD Trio 4k having dvb-t2 and dvb-s2x for barely more than the PCIe solution, which is why I started wondering.

It's definitely a SAT>IP server right, not just a client/receiver? It wasn't very clear on the couple of pages I saw about it.

[V_J]

From their description I thought it was a server, but glancing through the manual it seems rather not. The true Sat>IP servers (e.g. as offered by Kathrein) are much more expensive.
This looks like a true Sat>IP server ( https://telestar.de/en/product/digibit-twin/ ), which is not that expensive (70 euro, compared to 97 euro for the Hauppauge PCIe card I'm looking at and just over 100 euro for the TBS USB tuner). But it SAT>IP device is sat-only. I have no idea if you can put e.g. a sat-combiner ( https://axing.com/en/produkt/swe03001-en/ ) before this to have it include a dvb-t2 to the IP. So I really don't know enough about it, I think I should stick to what I know more.

The cheapest (reliable) solution for me would be the Hauppauge PCIe card; it offers all I need, but it would also be the most restrictive: just for use on a PC that has a free PCIe slot and will require me to run NextPVR on that PC. But I think I'll go that route unless some super alternative pops up.


Edit: One more question... On a card such as the Hauppauge HVR5525 (https://www.hauppauge.co.uk/site/product...r5525.html ), which has tuners (DVB-T2, DVB-S2) and analog inputs, are the analog inputs usable when e.g. NextPVR is accessing the tuners? I would assume the tuners are not accessible for other programs, but are the analog inputs available for other software or is the entire card "locked" ? (or does it depend on the card?)

Thanks!