"D3D12.DLL missing from system" - no more Win7 support for NextPVR?

[DSperber]

I had been running the 7.01 version of NextPVR Server on my Win7 system (which is the production mode of that machine, in support of Windows Media Center). No problem.

Today I saw there was a 7.02 version so I ran the usual NPVRSetup.EXE to upgrade to this latest version. And the upgrade ran successfully (supposedly).

However when I then tried to run it, I received an error advising "d3d12.dll missing from system":



Doing a search for this missing module, it appears it IS present on Win10/Win11 systems, but not Win7.

Is there anything that can be done to resolve this? Or is NextPVR Server 7.02 and newer simply no longer available for running in Win7?

I can restore the previously working 7.01 on my Win7 production system if I have to, and simply never move on from there, but I'd certainly prefer to remain current if possible.

[mvallevand]

DirectX 12 isn't supported on Windows 7 so yes that is an unexpected side effect the libSkiaSharp update https://github.com/mono/SkiaSharp/issues/3267

Unfortunately this impacts UI clients too not just NextPVR.exe. Kodi might work but only older versions since it doesn't support Win7 now

Martin

[DSperber]

DirectX 12 isn't supported on Windows 7 so yes that is an unexpected side effect the libSkiaSharp update  https://github.com/mono/SkiaSharp/issues/3267

Martin

Well, that's unfortunate.

I suppose I will now have to rethink my overall position regarding Silicon Dust hardware and software, and related NextPVR.

Still no support for ATSC 3.0 DRM means I have zero use for any of this, as I have complete live/DVR support for OTA through both (a) Windows Media Center for ATSC 1.0, and (b) ATSC 1.0 + 3.0/DRM + local built-in licensed AC4 audio decoding through my Zapperbox M1, and (c ) Windows Media Center for Spectrum cable DRM/Playready via cablecard and tuning adapter. I simply do not use my SD Flex-4K or the native HDHR client app on any device (since it does not support ATSC 3.0 DRM and NBC/CBS here in LA, which are the only OTA channels I regularly watch).

My whole home and its four TVs are fully supported by WMC for OTA and cable, and the ZB M1 on my main LG OLED C9 if I want to watch OTA ATSC 3.0. Looks like my multi-year experiment with SD Flex-4K is coming to an end. It's all really just been a "lab project" anyway, with so many shortcomings (e.g. no support for AC4 audio in ATSC 3.0 in NextPVR) that I have to just accept.

I might as well just uninstall everything and disconnect my Flex-4K. Completely worthless for my environment.

[mvallevand]

Yes your original post was unexpected (not sure if sub will revert libSkiaSharp or not) but technically .netcore 8 doesn't support Win7 either.

Personally I was never happy with WMC and it never supported cable DRM here in Canada but you have the extrememly old and obsolete technology that makes it work for you. You have no reason from NextPVR.

There are NextPVR clients that do support AC-4 (Android uidroid h/w or ffmpeg hack, yauiclient (ffmpeg hack) on Windows, Rokus that support AC-4 and Samsung Tizen but recordings only in mp4. DRM is the shortcoming.

Martin

[DSperber]

I would suggest that sub updates the information about the availability of v7.0.2 to PLAINLY SHOW that there is no longer support for running NextPVR Server in a Win7 environment.

And same for any 3rd-party derivatives and alternative UI clients and apps that will likewise no longer function for a similar reason.

I have been running WMC since 2009 using AMD TV tuner/capture cards of that time. In 2010 when Ceton came out with its InfiniTV cablecard-enabled tuner card which supported DRM content (which is what AT&T Cable -> Time Warner Cable -> Spectrum Cable all activated on all cable channels starting back then) I upgraded from the AMD TV tuner card to the Ceton (+ Hauppauge ATSC tuner card for OTA).

I have thus really been using WMC for the past 15 years. When MS dropped support for Zap2it guide data and went to Rovi, users rebelled. That prompted one very ambitious and capable user/developer to create EPG123 which made use of Schedules Direct for a data source. So for the past 5 years or so all of us remaining WMC users have made use of EPG123/SchedulesDirect to continue to let WMC operate flawlessly.

WMC does everything it promised, and everything I need. It supports both my OTA ATSC 1.0 4-tuners as well as my cable 6-tuners. It supports all cable DRM content. There is absolutely nothing defective or inferior about it, other than that it requires a Win7 host.

I need more than just some OTA capability. I need Spectrum cable support, and whole-home DVR support for my four TVs. WMC is my production world and will obviously remain so for as long as Spectrum continues to support cablecards (for WMC and Tivo users). Everything else (including Zapperbox M1 for ATSC 3.0) is just "playing in the sandbox".

I will simply uninstall NextPVR, as while I spent much time installing, customizing, and playing with it, I never actually used it "for real" as I thought I might. I will likely retain the HDHR DVR software (which still runs on Win7) and client apps (installed on all of my devices).

[mvallevand]

UI client work but they are rendered by the server. As I said this was unexpected.

WMC doesn't support whole home DRM well without specific devices that it seems you have. Thiese don't work in Canada. NextPVR support HDMI capture devices that give me whole home even with DRM channels (all cable here in Canada).

I fully expect cablecard to disappear too so be prepared.

Martin

[Bobins]

DSperber

You did mention you had the means to revert back to 7.01 and realistically that would be your only option if you wished to keep using NPVR on Windows 7.

Almost certainly those of us who beta tested prior to the 7.02 release wouldn't have been doing so on Windows 7.
Whilst I have sympathy with your problem, you ARE running a system with an OS (Windows 7) that hasn't had support for nearly 5 years.
Even Windows 10 is heading in that direction.

If Sub is to continue to develop NPVR then it will only be possible if it keeps up with changes in the technology and the supporting software environment, especially considering NPVR is mostly "Free" and totally down to his dedication to a hobby.

Ray

[sub]

I would suggest that sub updates the information about the availability of v7.0.2 to PLAINLY SHOW that there is no longer support for running NextPVR Server in a Win7 environment.

This is the first I'm hearing of it. It's probably been 10+ years since I had a Win7 machine here, so not something I've tested.

I also couldn't tell you if it works on Vista or Win8, so hard to give a definitive list of how far back you can go.

[DSperber]

Well, right up through NPVR v7.01 it actually was supported and capable of running on Win7 systems. I was fully aware that NPVR Player app did not run on Win7 and only on Win10/Win11, but NPVR DVR/server certainly did. So that's how I worked... because Win7 was the production mode of that desktop and I already had plenty of free space on drive storage to support "recorder storage" for Windows Media Center also running on this machine. That's the background for why I chose it as the machine on which to install NPVR DVR/Server, to support NPVR app on devices and my Win10/Win11 laptops.

I'd already known that NPVR Player app didn't run on Win7, but that was fine. I could run NPVR Player app on my assorted streaming devices and my Win10/Win11 machines. So as long as I had NPVR DVR/Server running on some machine I was fully supported. And up until the latest 7.02, Win7 worked just fine for NPVR DVR/Server.

Since the underlying requisite Flex-4K is a network device if I truly wanted to retain NPVR I could just install NPVR 7.02 on one of my Win10 laptops and go forward with that environment. Of course the amount of free storage for recordings on that laptop is very very limited, nothing like the amount of storage available on that Win7 desktop machine. But it would at least allow me to continue a "small scale model" of NPVR. I certainly have no real need to use use NPVR for "production" of any kind. It is just a 'lab project", so a "small scale model" isn't a handicap. Again, any NPVR Player must be on a Win10/Win11 machine (or device) anyway.

I may end up doing that. But honestly I think I won't. I simply have no use for anything from SD or HDHR, or NextPVR, that is based on using the Flex-4K. It only supports complete support for ATSC 1.0, which I already have my preferred Windows Media Center as "whole-home production". Flex-4K support for ATSC 3.0 is only for non-DRM, and that means I cannot watch ATSC 3.0 NBC or CBS here in LA, if I actually had such a desire... which I don't.

It's been an interesting few years playing with all things SD Flex-4K related, but in the end the failure to facilitate "gateway" implementation for whole-home ATSC 3.0 including DRM content is simply the deal breaker. No reason to keep "playing in the sandbox" with either HDHR or NextPVR until/unless SD ever gets A3SA approval for their DRM implementation. And of course I still would need complete support for ATSC 3.0 (AC4, DRM, etc.) in both HDHR app and NextPVR player and also UIDroid. If/when that ever happens at that time I will reconsider my options of reinstalling the Flex-4K etc.

[sub]

The change in the UI that broke Win7 compatibility was updating to the latest version of SkiaSharp, which is a library used for drawing the user interface. This was done to fix stability issues lots of users were reporting that could cause NextPVR to crash.

There appears to be some on-going discussion in skiasharp project about this hard dependency on d3d12.dll, so it's possible this may be resolved in the next version of Skia. Ultimately, we're at the mercy of them on that front.

It's been an interesting few years playing with all things SD Flex-4K related, but in the end the failure to facilitate "gateway" implementation for whole-home ATSC 3.0 including DRM content is simply the deal breaker. No reason to keep "playing in the sandbox" with either HDHR or NextPVR until/unless SD ever gets A3SA approval for their DRM implementation. And of course I still would need complete support for ATSC 3.0 (AC4, DRM, etc.) in both HDHR app and NextPVR player and also UIDroid. If/when that ever happens at that time I will reconsider my options of reinstalling the Flex-4K etc.

I think it's likely AC4 support will be supported eventually. This will happen when the ffmpeg project finally decides what to do about officially supporting AC4.

ATSC 3.0 DRM is never happening in NextPVR though. We don't have the budget for licensing and certification etc, and even if we did, that certification would be incompatible with the unencrypted recordings we do, and the free streaming to clients such as kodi, vlc, web browsers etc.