cheap PCMCIA or USB TV-tuner with CC

[Lookingfor]

Could you help me to choose a cheap PCMCIA or USB TV-tuner that supports CLOSED CAPTIONS, please? (AverTV CardBus supports CC, but it is 100$ and, surprisingly enough, it is not available in my town)

Thanks in advance

[sub]

I should point out, GB-PVR doesnt support CC.

[reboot]

Caveat: If you have a hauppauge card with CC's, you can get them to display in gbpvr (or any other TV app). I got them working with my PVR-250 easily.
Doesn't the PVR-USB-2.0 have CC's?

[sub]

If you have a hauppauge card with CC's, you can get them to display in gbpvr (or any other TV app). I got them working with my PVR-250 easily.

We should narrow that down to 'you can get limited CC playback with the PVR250/350 when you playback recordings (but only if you use the Intervideo decoder and VMR)'. You wont get CC information with live tv. You wont get it if you're using an MVP. You wont get it if you have a PVR150/PVR500, or any other non-Hauppauge card.

I thought it was worth pointing out these limitations up front since he hasnt bought hardware yet. Its better than letting him buy the gear, then find it doesnt do what he wants.

[Pilot]

You know, I live in St. Augustine, Florida, which is the home for the Florida School for the Deaf and Blind (huge chunk of real estate in the downtown area). I know quite a few people who work there, and I think it's high time to start putting some pressure on Hauppauge to start supporting closed captioning.

In the USA starting in July 1993, the Television Decorder Circuitry Act was implemented:

"Require that apparatus designed to receive television pictures broadcast simultaneously with sound be equipped with built-in decoder circuitry designed to display closed-captioned television transmissions when such apparatus is manufactured in the United States or imported for use in the United States, and its television picture screen is 13 inches or greater in size."

Me thinks the PC TV tuner arena has slid through a loophole in this requirement because they could always just say, "Our TV tuner cards don't come with displays."

I like closed captioning because I am "children impaired" (too many kids, too much noise) rather than hearing impaired. However, there are plenty of truly hearing impaired people in my area of the state/country, and it's a big shame that they can't use GB-PVR because virtually all of the TV tuner cards don't seem to support closed captioning -- at least not properly/reliably. I think it's high time for me to do some serious letter writing to Hauppauge, as well as maybe a Senator or two. I'll contact people I know at the School for the Deaf and Blind to see if there's any legal/political bigwig who's itching to jump on this type of bandwagon. Personally, I think this is just Hauppauge's disregard for closed captioning being a priority, and therefore a blatant disregard for the deaf community. This is a feature that should be been available all along (at least since 1993). I'm rather disappointed in Hauppauge for not taking the initiative to comply with this law, and instead has apparently chosen to squeeze through a loophole in this law just to avoid putting one more chip on their circuit boards. Really...what could it have hurt?

Ahem...uh...I'll get off my soapbox now. Sorry about hi-jacking the thread with a rant.

[Pilot]

Just found this at http://www.access-board.gov/sec508/guide/1194.24.htm :

"Analog and digital television displays, as well as stand-alone digital television tuners and computer equipment that includes digital television receiver or display circuitry, must include caption decoder circuitry."

If this is the case, I wonder how Hauppauge and others are putting out TV tuner cards that do not support closed captioning (at least selling them in the USA)?

Sorry...hijacked the thread again...!

[sub]

I hate to break it to you, but you'd notice if you used a PVR150 with MCE that the CC do indeed work. They've changed the way its done, which makes things much more difficult.

The PVR250/350 would include CC information in the .mpg file.

With the PVR150, the VBI data is no longer muxed into the .mpg file, but rather produced as a separate stream. In MCE, this is muxed into the dvr-ms file, but outside of that we dont really have many options.

[Pilot]

So, they're providing non-standard CC's? There's entire subsections of this law that are devoted to specific standards for CC.

This law is specifically regarding hardware -- not software. I shouldn't have to buy Windows MCE to get CC's to work on Hauppauge hardware. The fact that the MVP's dont' support CC is also skirting this law, because they're pretty specific about video broadcasts and receivers have to be able to decode CC.

They're still getting a nastygram from me. Let their legal department fret for a while, if nothing else.

[sub]

So, they're providing non-standard CC's? There's entire subsections of this law that are devoted to specific standards for CC.

No, thats not what I'm saying. They are providing standard CC information. The difference is that the information is no longer embedded in the MPEG2 file that comes out of the PVR150/500. Instead they provide a separate stream for getting this closed caption information. This makes it very difficult for the developer to use.

The problem is purely a software one, ie its GB-PVRs fault that CC arent available, but this way they're doing things makes it very difficult to implement. Combine this with me not being in the US where they transmit CC info makes it next to impossible for me to implement support for this.

I did start the task a couple of months ago, trying to do some stuff remotely, but it was pretty awkward working this way, so I never completed the job.

If there is another developer that has been here for a while, has a bit of C++/Directshow experience, and wants to help complete the work, then I can give them a partially complete directshow filter to finish.

[Pilot]

I think you're being too hard on yourself and GB-PVR -- the PVR150, PVR500, etc., do not provide closed captioning support via the Hauppauge software either (WinTV2000 or whatever that is) -- at least not from a recorded file. The MediaMVP also doesn't provide closed captioning support. If they're not imbedding the CC in the MPEG2 file then the question is...why wouldn't they? Don't they still do that with the PVR250?

Please don't read this as me bashing GB-PVR in any way. I think this is far more of a hardware issue, especially for these cards that have hardware encoders. They should be allowing the CC info to be recorded in the MPEG2 file, so that when it's played back any hardware that has a CC decoder should be able to display the text. Or am I completely talking out of my posterior on this?

I'm sure you can get GB-PVR to support their bastardized method of recording closed captioning, but I just don't think you should have to do it. Is every piece of video related software going to have to do it or can't Hauppauge just do something a little more standard?

I think what I'm saying here is that the law is pretty specific -- if you sell a TV recording/tuner device in the USA, it has to display and record CC's. The law doesn't say that a 3rd-party developer has to write a firmware upgrade for your VCR to display CC's from a video tape. Hauppauge's own software won't display CC's from a recorded MPEG2, so why should they shove that feature off on 3rd-party developers? I don't get it. Maybe I'm just in a "thick" mood or something...