New ATI 785g [HD4200 onboard]

[pBS]

anyone seen the newest ati offerings, 785g chipset with HD4200 card builtin?
finally when they just got the 4xxx drivers working well, and gpu assisted transcode, they come out with the 4000 series onboard...hopefully they've learned something after the last go'round..

on shelves...hadn't seen anything about them online really..
link for one on sale as example..
http://www.directron.com/gama785gmus2h.html

unfortunately, this looks to be just an upgrade of the 780g 3xxx style boards..not really like a 4350..
"Fundamentally the architecture of the graphics core itself is pretty similar to the GPU found in the 780G's Radeon 3200 graphics. You've got the same 40 stream processors with 4 texture units and 4 ROPs as the 780G, the same ability to address up to 512MB of system RAM, and the same 500MHz core clock speed."
This is probably a disappointment for those of you who were hoping for a true next-generation successor based on ATI's highly successful RV7xx architecture. The Radeon HD 4350 for instance sports twice the stream processors -- 80 -- with eight texture units and 4 ROPs. With the 785G chipset relying on the same 55-nm manufacturing process as the 780G, ATI couldn't affordably fit the 4350's 242 million transistors into their transistor budget for 785G.

AMD confirmed that multi-channel LPCM audio over HDMI isn't supported by 785G; like 780G the 785G chipset is limited to 2 channels only.

blah....

[liteswap]

Interesting - but I feel you're generally better off doing the multichannel processing using a dedicated amp. Also, does the extra video oomph mean anything for a pure PVR? I doubt it - the 3200 seems fast enough for HD already.

[SIZE="1"]PS: If you're in Houston, you're up early... [/SIZE]

[pBS]

i wanted it for the accelerated transcoding in the new drivers..
plus a hdmi output onboard...
it does seem smoother, like it has more headroom...
i actually use analog audio cuz my tv farts when i pause...[detecting hdmi audio]
plus it's only 2 channel so it wouldn't benefit anyways..

oh and the new ones are easier on power! it seems much cooler even tho it's much more powerfull...
[low profile HD4650]

i paired it with a fanless power supply and i have to get inches from it to even hear anything at all..
i recently saw first PCI HD4350 card, sweet for pairing with an Atom mini-itx for a low cost, quiet, mini-client solution...

[whurlston]

The 3200, even with sideport memory, does not have the power to do Vector Adaptive deinterlacing of 1080i material at 1920x1080. I can select VA by disabling Aero/Transparency but when actually testing it, it drops back to Motion adaptive. If the 4200 can do VA, that will be one improvement. Power/heat is definitely another improvement.

[hoborg]

The 3200, even with sideport memory, does not have the power to do Vector Adaptive deinterlacing of 1080i material at 1920x1080. I can select VA by disabling Aero/Transparency but when actually testing it, it drops back to Motion adaptive. If the 4200 can do VA, that will be one improvement. Power/heat is definitely another improvement.

Should not be deinterlacing handled by DXVA?
Can i ask what h.264 decoder are you using?

[whurlston]

Should not be deinterlacing handled by DXVA?
Can i ask what h.264 decoder are you using?

It is handled by DXVA (DXVA2 actually) which offloads the deinterlacing to the video chip (the 3200 in this case) but there are not enough stream processors available on the 3200 to do vector adaptive deinterlacing. Tests were done with the PDVD 7.3/8/9 decoders as well as MPC-HC and ArcSoft. The same is true of MPEG2 (which is what broadcast streams are here in the US).

Tests were done using the test videos from http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157287

[pBS]

yea, my 3450 barely does it.. and any high bitrate/long,fast pans and you get slight stutters...
and this 785g has same as 780g in the important categories...stream processors, raster ops,etc..

the 4650 is effortless comparatively...
plus it has dedicated memory,128bit...twice the bandwidth..hypermemory blows..

it's interesting, the 3650 does just as well with compressing as the 4650 with latest drivers..
[meaning the avivo accell encoding is not just limited to 46xx+ cards]
then again, they have been working on it since those cards came out..
[and i fail to see any difference between UVD1 and UVD2...anybody know the difference?]
basically with the encoding, the more stream processors the better...

i was limited to low profile for my case so short powerful cards have been hard to find..
integrated would have been nice, but not at expense of stutters..
this 4650 rocks, encodes fast and still less than 50$

[BigMoose]

My 780g with onboard HD3200 does perfect HD 1080i sport pans - sometimes! I believe the hw is capable of doing it as sometimes I get perfect playback on the fastest pans with soccer and it does them perfectly smooth with PDVD7/8 H264 decoders. CoreAVC is awful though at pans (despite the CPU not being more than 50% in use).

That said, even with PDVD8 decoders it's unpredictable and often something will screw it up. I have no idea what is causing my intermittent problems as I've never been able to narrow it down. Certainly changing audio decoder (even though I'm just passing the AC3 through to the SPDIF) makes a difference. So I guess there's a bottleneck somewhere in the machine. I've installed something recently that made it worse, watching the game on BBC HD yesterday was worse than I've had it before.

So is the general view that despite sometimes getting perfect pans on the 780G that it's just not quite ever going to cut it? Would a new video card in the box help? Although no idea if I've got room... I guess I could replace the MB and keep the rest as is as the lack of consistency with 1080i H264 playback is so annoying. If I never got it perfect I would almost be happier as at least then I'd know it wasn't capable!

[rookie]

So is the general view that despite sometimes getting perfect pans on the 780G that it's just not quite ever going to cut it? Would a new video card in the box help? Although no idea if I've got room... I guess I could replace the MB and keep the rest as is as the lack of consistency with 1080i H264 playback is so annoying. If I never got it perfect I would almost be happier as at least then I'd know it wasn't capable!

You might check out your machine with the DPC Latency Checker

[INDENT]http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml[/INDENT]

I found I was having problems with System Restore on a secondary drive I installed. The drive was usually powered down, but would have to spin up for system restore every so often. I turned off system restore on that drive and I don't get the drop outs. Good Luck!

[pBS]

i had occasional skips when using hw decoder, so i use ffdshow when i want perfectly smooth pans...works great...easy on even the slowest cpus...[half hardware accel]

32xx can do it, but just bleeding edge...I like a little breathing room...
i even had hard time getting 800mhz mem cards working well...[1000mhz seems like sweet spot, they work great] but hypermemory, as much as i hate it, isn't the problem...
[tho i would recommend dual channel if using 780g]

the thing that got me was if you used just a 4350 card, you get same speed as a 780g PLUS a second crossfire card! nearly double a 780g alone...

so i've settled for a drop-in card instead of the grail of integrated as it's still just not there yet..
[and likely will be $$ if it ever does get on par]

even tried the 9400GT but wasn't impressed, only dual monitor mode is clone!? that blows