hTPC , general discussion (long)

[simas]

Background:
I live in North American (Chicago) and have used GBPVR over last few weeks to get OTA HDTV using Vbox DTA 150. In my experience GBPVR proved to be an excellent replacement for Beyond TV 4.4 (originally bundled with the card), and I have enjoyed the plugins provided by the community and amount of control it gives to me as a user

Now I am thinking of putting together a dedicated home theather system and home theather equpiment in the living room purely for running GBPVR to use the digital library I have and free up my primary computer (use for VPN connectivity to work, database development and some light gaming). As I was putting together a configuration on what home theather based PC should look like, I decided to ask people who have done something similar before and start with forum for the software I indend to use. Your comments, throughts or feedback would be appreciated.

1) CPU qualifications - dual core vs single core
From my experience so far GBPVR rarely consumes a lot of the CPU resources , so would getting a dual core CPU be a waste of money or something GBPVR would be able to use (i.e. when recording a show to a disk while playing previously recording video on the screen)?

2) Single HDTV tuners vs multiple tuners - I am considering purchasing another Vbox tuner card to give setup an ability to record a channel while watching another one on 'live tv'. How does GBPVR deal with multiple HDTV tuners? What happens if/when recording engine is busy taping a show, and user requests to watch live TV on another channel - will GBPVR know that this should be done on second tuner (leaving the first to continue taping the show)?
If this functionality is not implemented , would getting second OTA HDTV tuner be a waste of money?

What about using the same "HDTV" Antenna, splitting the signal from it and feeding it into multiple tuners - have anyone tried that?

3) OS - Windows 2000 vs XP. I believe that if I want dual cores I pretty much have to go with XP (and SP2_. Are there any limitations to GBPVR when running on Windows 2000 (or any other OS)? I am already aware of the MDAC 2.6+ requirement and the need to update the WMP -anything else I should know?


4) 64 bit OS - worth it? If I do go with dual cores and will buy XP, is getting 64 bit version of OS worth looking into? Does it matter at all to GBPVR?

5) Memory- worth getting over 1 Gb or will it be generally irrelevant to GBPVR?


Other questions (general, not related to GBPVR) . I will also cross post them on other forums
a) Audio hardware (within and outside of the PC)
When you setup your system, did you connect it to the dedicated audio processing hardware (receiver,etc)? How did it work for you? Any thoughts or requirements on the functionality/output types/processing power of audio card I should purchase for the HTPC?

b) Video thoughts - right now I am looking for something that
would give enough processing power for HDTV video on the 1080 monitor while running quietly enough (without fans , using passive cooling).

My last 3 cards have been Nvidia so I am looking at likes of GeForce 7600 GT (minimum required to use all functions of the purevideo HD softwarae) that would have DVI/HDMI and passive cooling.

I am not sure yet how I will get audio out of the HTPC if I do use a card with HDMI out (carrying video and audio in single cable), connect audio internally from sound card to the video card? Wouldn't it result in quality degragadion for audio (digital to analog conversion,etc)? Your experience would help

Internal video - does it even make sense to look into internal video solutions (Geforce 6150 type) that come with the motherboard if i plan to output to 1080p screen ? Does it have enough power to handle HDTV video at those resolutions?


By the way, big thanks to RWMECH who have provided his ATSC building experience ...

Simas

[Ted the Penguin]

1) CPU qualifications - dual core vs single core
From my experience so far GBPVR rarely consumes a lot of the CPU resources , so would getting a dual core CPU be a waste of money or something GBPVR would be able to use (i.e. when recording a show to a disk while playing previously recording video on the screen)?

Havnt had a lot of experience with HDTV so some other users might be able to help more with this one, but I have a very modest pentium that handles SDTV very nicely.

2) Single HDTV tuners vs multiple tuners - I am considering purchasing another Vbox tuner card to give setup an ability to record a channel while watching another one on 'live tv'. How does GBPVR deal with multiple HDTV tuners? What happens if/when recording engine is busy taping a show, and user requests to watch live TV on another channel - will GBPVR know that this should be done on second tuner (leaving the first to continue taping the show)?

I think GB-PVR handles multiple digital inputs, so it should be fine for multiple HDTV tuners, you can probably find an answer to this in the remote access to ATSC thread.

What about using the same "HDTV" Antenna, splitting the signal from it and feeding it into multiple tuners - have anyone tried that?

you will probably need an amplifier to do that, as the signal will be cut down by splitting it.

3) OS - Windows 2000 vs XP. I believe that if I want dual cores I pretty much have to go with XP (and SP2_. Are there any limitations to GBPVR when running on Windows 2000 (or any other OS)? I am already aware of the MDAC 2.6+ requirement and the need to update the WMP -anything else I should know?
4) 64 bit OS - worth it? If I do go with dual cores and will buy XP, is getting 64 bit version of OS worth looking into? Does it matter at all to GBPVR?

not sure about these, other people should be able to help, some answers may be on the forum already

5) Memory- worth getting over 1 Gb or will it be generally irrelevant to GBPVR?

1Gb should be good enough for most things, you could monitor usage with your current setup, that should give you a reference.

a) Audio hardware (within and outside of the PC)
When you setup your system, did you connect it to the dedicated audio processing hardware (receiver,etc)? How did it work for you? Any thoughts or requirements on the functionality/output types/processing power of audio card I should purchase for the HTPC?

I do not have my system hooked up to a receiver yet, but I plan to. I would suggest an optical connection to the receiver, this should reduce the chance of annoying ground loops, also passes the best audio information. but coax or optical you wil defitnatly want to have a digital output on your sound card

b) Video thoughts - right now I am looking for something that
would give enough processing power for HDTV video on the 1080 monitor while running quietly enough (without fans , using passive cooling).

My last 3 cards have been Nvidia so I am looking at likes of GeForce 7600 GT (minimum required to use all functions of the purevideo HD softwarae) that would have DVI/HDMI and passive cooling.

Sapphire makes an ATI card that has HDMI with HDCP, this is great for compatibility with HDDVD or Blu ray. it is unfortuantely not passively cooled, but I dont think that the fan will be really loud in it, try looking at some reviews.

I am not sure yet how I will get audio out of the HTPC if I do use a card with HDMI out (carrying video and audio in single cable), connect audio internally from sound card to the video card? Wouldn't it result in quality degragadion for audio (digital to analog conversion,etc)? Your experience would help

ok that ATI card I was talking about, it has a SPDIF connection for audio, so it will pass 8 channel audio over the HDMI cable, I am pretty sure that NVIDIA does not have a card that will support that yet. oh and there will be no loss of quality going through that, because the digital stream is just passed. in audio processing in general, you will want to keep the audio in a digital stream going out of the HTPC, with HDTV and DVD's it comes in digital and ideally you should apply no processing to it at all, just pass it out the digital audio connection, and let the receiver take care of the processing. the less processing you do the better the audio will sound.

Internal video - does it even make sense to look into internal video solutions (Geforce 6150 type) that come with the motherboard if i plan to output to 1080p screen ? Does it have enough power to handle HDTV video at those resolutions?

I am really not sure about that, try to find something on google about it, see if someone did video tests with that chipset.

sorry I couldnt answer everything, but good luck with your setup, let us know if you have any other problems/questions

[folkboat]

We have not gotten into to HDTV YET!! However we will be pulling the trigger soon.

Here is what we have now:

AMD AThlon XP 2000 gig-mem
GBPVR 97.7 Weather, Theatre plugins - default skin.
On-board AC97 audio
XP - SP1
40gig ops drive
120 gig media drive
PVR-150
ATI 7000 32mb TV out card (composite)
Box sits in the living room with a 5.1 Surround Sound receiver
Comcast standard cable (I don't like STB's)

Hardwired internal LAN with 3-MVP'S (d-link 4-port switch)
2 - MVP's connected to a 5.1 Surround Sound receiver.
1 - MVP connected to a 15" LCD tv
Each Receiver/TV/DVD player is controlled by a OFA 8810/9910 universal remote control - programmed by computer using JP1.
Total 4-remotes (replaced 22 remotes) Very high WAF!!!

We live in a 3-story townhouse, thus the need for all the MVP's.

The reason I am sharing this is to show what GBPVR can do with an old underpowered Computer. Additionally sans the Surround Sound Equipment
total cost was $475 including the remotes (we had the computer).

All the connections are "Composite for video" RCA stereo for audio.
This configuration has served us very well, we use it primarily for MP3 music streaming, netradio, TV Guide, weather and occasional recording of broadcast programming.

Oh yes!!!! indeed we will upgrade, faster computer, HDTV LCD'S and so on. It never stops!!!!!

If we had DEEEEEEP pockets than we would have a "Kaleidescape" system driving 50" HDTV plasmas, Crestron remotes etc..........

[JonnyCam]

I do not have my system hooked up to a receiver yet, but I plan to. I would suggest an optical connection to the receiver, this should reduce the chance of annoying ground loops, also passes the best audio information. but coax or optical you wil defitnatly want to have a digital output on your sound card

Ture regarding ground loops - but not usually a problem with SPDIF as it's just binary.
The big problem I have with optical is running the stupid cables and not being able to bend them too far for fear of snapping the plastic / glass fibre. I dont agree with optical passing the "best audio information" - what can be different between 2 binary strings

When using coax, a triple shielded coax will have no issues at all - even if it's running beside AC cables.
(by the way, I use both types in my HTPC / DVD / PS2 / PMC setup - and really there is no difference)

Coax is easier for longer runs - or situations where the space is a little tighter and you need to have the cable go around a few corners.

[psycik]

I've been hooked up to a receiver for the past 6 months, and only using a cheap as "RCA" cable as a "digital coax" to my Yamaha recever. I get the 5.1 DD and DTS with no problems.....

[simas]

Thank you for all who have responded with answers and information, few more questions and comments

1) Looking at single core setup as people post succesfullly running configurations on modest CPU hardware

2) Looking at multiple HDTV multiple tuners (since GBPVR supports it).

3) Looking at universal remotes as WAF is very important for the HTPC to move from "his toy" category into "something I will use and like" group. WAF has to be there and GBPVR has to be work with stability (it would be enough to miss recording one or two of her favorite shows and I will have to look at other options).


In terms of questions
1) What sound solution you use/recommend? I have heard of Yamaha receivers and am considering looking at one- what type of the sound card I need to have to successfully feed one? I have seen "folkboat" posting of using internal MB audio.


Any other thoughts, suggestions, "been there ,tried that" type of comments would be welcomed.

Simas

[psycik]

My setup (the yamaha receiver post). I use the onboard sound capabilities of my motherboard (Gigabyte K7-400N-Pro) running to a SPDIF Daughter board that hosts a Digital Coax and Optical connection. I use the digital coax connection to the receiver.

That means the the computer is not actually doing anything but a passthrough of the sound. I also have another connection running from the Mobo sound card's audio out, direct to the back of my tv. So i can run either stereo or 5.1.

I don't notice any problems with this setup, and the sound sounds quite good....especially an XviD with DTS soundtrack played though the receiver...

[toboR]

1) Looking at single core setup as people post succesfullly running configurations on modest CPU hardware

Simas

After building my HTPC (no ATSC yet) I learned that, at least in the case of AMD processors, dual-core devices run cooler that single core units. Also, if you are planning on adding additional tuners, the system CPU demand will only increase. I mention the cooling aspect because excessive heat results in increased fan noise.

[Ted the Penguin]

Ture regarding ground loops - but not usually a problem with SPDIF as it's just binary.
The big problem I have with optical is running the stupid cables and not being able to bend them too far for fear of snapping the plastic / glass fibre. I dont agree with optical passing the "best audio information" - what can be different between 2 binary strings

... as long as there is a electrical connection between two potential grounds there can be a ground loop.
best audio information was refering to digital opposed to analog

3) Looking at universal remotes as WAF is very important for the HTPC to move from "his toy" category into "something I will use and like" group. WAF has to be there and GBPVR has to be work with stability (it would be enough to miss recording one or two of her favorite shows and I will have to look at other options)./QUOTE]
the logitech harmony series of remotes is one of the best universal remotes out there, they dont look gaudy and can control anything with an IR remote.
[QUOTE=simas]1) What sound solution you use/recommend? I have heard of Yamaha receivers and am considering looking at one- what type of the sound card I need to have to successfully feed one? I have seen "folkboat" posting of using internal MB audio.

Onkyo and Yamaha are good lower end receivers, not sure about other ones, I am pretty much decided on getting a Onkyo 503 for my system when I get it

[gEd]

I dont agree with optical passing the "best audio information" - what can be different between 2 binary strings

The problem isn;t about just 1's and 0's otherwise all cd players would sound the same, which they don;t.

The problem is jitter, the bane of the digital audio world. Unlike computer data, digital audio is time dependant and any clock (sync) errors between the source and the DAC can reduce audio quality.

IIRC from when I was more into hi-fi gear, there are 2 types of optical connectors. really good ones and really cheap ones.. Guess which ones get fitted to most kit?

Cheap optical connectors and plastic (as opposed to quartz) optical cables generally result in a worse sound that when using an electrical connection.

But it all depends on what kit you have and how good your ears are. I have not done back to back comparisons myself.