Hauppauge HVR1600

[Cahill84]

I think Zaphod would probably well equiped to answer that question. So, What's your quality like in comparison to signal strength and quality reception.... ie no stutering.

[zaphod7501]

I think Zaphod would probably well equiped to answer that question. So, What's your quality like in comparison to signal strength and quality reception.... ie no stutering.

Thanks, I think. I have been using a MyHD for quite a while (and the HVR1600) plus I have 35 years as a TV repairman in an all UHF broadcast area. These signal levels and "Quality" levels are probably like many other tests. You can test for bad but not for good. If it says it's bad it's probably bad, but if it says it's good, then you don't know very much at all.

The two tools that I use are a variable amp and switchable attenuator (I have some single channel attenuators also but those were only needed for analog balancing). Reducing the signal level would be my first suggestion. The trick is to drop the strength of the ghosts below detection level but still have the main signal powerfull enough to lock in. I would go for steady levels, even if they are a little low.

ATSC does not have the visual indications (snow, ghosts, etc) when a signal is poor and there are no diagnostic tools or devices available yet for general troubleshooting so good reception requires a lot of luck. "They" claim that when analog disappears digital will improve. The MyHD has a real time signal level indicator that I use for testing. If the level fluxuates more than a few percent then multipath distortion is probably present and you're going to get really bad recordings. The HVR does not have a very sensitive tuner compared with the MYHD and new built-in TV tuners so it does not perform as well yet (driver and firmware upgrades will probably help out as time goes by). Too sensitive and it would pick up noise from the power supply in a PC.

Some "rules" of UHF reception: (which includes 90%+ ATSC stations)
UHF is line-of-sight. Anything in the way blocks or reflects the signal. A reflection is worse than a low signal level.
UHF is directional and you will need to move your antenna to optimize for each station.
You might even need different amp/attenuation for each channel.
Good shielded cables are a must.
An unshielded piece of wire acts as a UHF antenna and will create a ghost on it's own (multipath in digitalspeak).
Indoor antennas don't work well.
Rabbit Ears are not UHF antennas. Loops, bow-ties, double bow-ties are UHF antennas.
Twirly dials on an indoor antenna are a joke.
Amplifiers will not work properly if you have powerfull analog stations in the area.
The absolute best indoor antenna is the RadioShack 15-624 double bow-tie.
The best outdoor antenna is a 4 or 8 bowtie antenna (The 6 foot parabolic dish is no longer available).
Both of these recommendations will out-spec all of the new "Digital" antennas on the market (even the "SquareShooter").
One reason these work so well is the wire grid that blocks reflected signals. There is no simple tool that can measure the power difference between the main and ghost signals for ATSC. NTSC distortion is immediately visible on the screen.
Some digital stations are broadcasting ridiculously low power signals and a car driving by can momentarily block the signal. Check the FCC about the stations you receive. http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/audio/tvq.html

In short, UHF reception is "magic". What works for you might not work for your neighbor and what works in the living room might not work in the bedroom. Obviousy, no one talked to any TV repairmen when they designed a UHF ATSC system. A really bad idea. One megawatt VHF goes a hundred miles, one megawatt UHF goes ten miles and bounces off of everything bigger than a cat.

Have you checked the local area forum over at AVS for any issues pertaining to your specific stations?

[topperdude]

Have been using GBPVR for past few weeks with the "Software Recorder Plugin" with my original ATI Radeon (no numbers). See my sig for system specs. Finally got around to installing HVR1600 and installed W2k drivers from SHS website. Did NOT install ANY software from s/w from Hauppauge CD or website. Do I need to install anything other than the W2K drivers if I plan on using GBPVR?

Here's my experience so far setting up HVR1600 in GBPVR:
a) In GBPVR Config - added a Direct Recording Plugin source for HVR 1600 Analog tuner, set EPG Source as none since I am using the EPG source configured for zap2it in the "Software Recorder Plugin" source. Does this configuration for HVR1600 (Analog) sound correct? Do I need to define a TV listing source for each analog tuner?

b) I spent very little time configuring/trying out ATSC tuner with the BDA Recorder. EPG Source for ATSC tuner was set to a different zap2it a/c with only OTA ATSC channels selected. These channels were appended by GBPVR after the analog channels. However, when I switched to these channels, GBPVR could not tune to any channels and did not see any picture. Does ATSC not work through GB-PVR on W2k Pro or have I misconfigured something? Do I need to install the WinTV2k software from Hauppauge's website to install the MainConcept Elecard filters to get ATSC working in GBPVR under W2k Pro? Hope Steve (i.e. zaphod7501) or anyone else using HVR1600 w/ W2K SP4 can answer this question.

Few things I noticed:
a) The two analog tuners were working great last night. However noticed that deleting existing recordings took forever. At one point, GBPVR simply stopped responding. Left it alone for almost 30 minutes and still no progress. Had to power down computer. When I restarted computer and ran GBPVR config, got an error message that the SQLLite database file was locked. I then started GBPVR, deleted an old recording, quit GBPVR and restarted GBPVR config and the lock seemed to be released, but I didn't see the "Software Recorder Plugin" Capture source. Any idea why? Is the SQLLite database corrupt? How can I restore my settings (other than redefining everything)?

b) This morning, the computer would not start up properly - After login, i kept getting "explorer has generated errors and will close". Wonder if something during the HVR1600 install/configuration in GBPVR may have rendered the system unstable? If so, any suggestions on where to start to resolve the issue?

Thanks,
-Topper

[zaphod7501]

Do I need to install anything other than the W2K drivers if I plan on using GBPVR?

That was all that I did initially for recording purposes. You will need to select a "Mux" in config. You may have additional software needs for viewing ATSC.

Do I need to define a TV listing source for each analog tuner?

I think so but I can't help there since I don't believe in EPGs. I use manual recording for everything. You will want to add additional capture sources if you want to use the S-Video and/or composite inputs on the card.

b) I spent very little time configuring/trying out ATSC tuner with the BDA Recorder. EPG Source for ATSC tuner was set to a different zap2it a/c with only OTA ATSC channels selected. These channels were appended by GBPVR after the analog channels. However, when I switched to these channels, GBPVR could not tune to any channels and did not see any picture. Does ATSC not work through GB-PVR on W2k Pro or have I misconfigured something?

I have had it working but really don't bother too much since I have a MyHD card that I prefer. You may need decoders to view ATSC as well as HDTVpump, I believe. You will need to have Window's Media Player 9 installed. (I don't think 10 and 11 are available for Win2000) You might try recording one of the channels to see if a file is created. You will need to select the TS Mux in config unless you install and register a different one. I got the DVR-MS working once but it stopped after the first reboot.

Do I need to install the WinTV2k software from Hauppauge's website to install the MainConcept Elecard filters to get ATSC working in GBPVR under W2k Pro? Hope Steve (i.e. zaphod7501) or anyone else using HVR1600 w/ W2K SP4 can answer this question.

You can use the CD to run setup and deselect everything but the hcwSMD07 decoder and it should install the filter for use in playback. I've had pretty good luck with it for HD playback. Afterwards and before rebooting, you might want to verify that the hcw18bda.sys is still the 1.62.24320 version since that appears to be the driver that conflicts with Win2000.

Few things I noticed:
a) The two analog tuners were working great last night. However noticed that deleting existing recordings took forever. At one point, GBPVR simply stopped responding. Left it alone for almost 30 minutes and still no progress. Had to power down computer. When I restarted computer and ran GBPVR config, got an error message that the SQLLite database file was locked. I then started GBPVR, deleted an old recording, quit GBPVR and restarted GBPVR config and the lock seemed to be released, but I didn't see the "Software Recorder Plugin" Capture source. Any idea why? Is the SQLLite database corrupt? How can I restore my settings (other than redefining everything)?

b) This morning, the computer would not start up properly - After login, i kept getting "explorer has generated errors and will close". Wonder if something during the HVR1600 install/configuration in GBPVR may have rendered the system unstable? If so, any suggestions on where to start to resolve the issue?

Thanks,
-Topper

Not really any ideas here but you might start in safe mode and verify the version of the hcw18bda.sys file and copy back the '320 version if necessary. (system32/drivers location, I think) The card has a tendancy to lock up on poor signals. Verify the antenna connection. It does use a seperate connector for the ATSC tuner. (two antenna connections required) When the tuner locks up, it is necessary to fully power down the PC (AC also) to get it to reset.

[topperdude]

Not really any ideas here but you might start in safe mode and verify the version of the hcw18bda.sys file and copy back the '320 version if necessary. (system32/drivers location, I think) The card has a tendancy to lock up on poor signals. Verify the antenna connection. It does use a seperate connector for the ATSC tuner. (two antenna connections required) When the tuner locks up, it is necessary to fully power down the PC (AC also) to get it to reset.

Steve - appreciate your input!

I have the computer up and running now and can tune channels just fine using GBPVR. However, the problem now is that it only shows the two capture sources I created for the HVR1600 (analog and digital). And any changes I make to the Capture sources do not stick. I get an error message - "SQLLite.Database.Exception" or something to that effect saying that the file is locked (have attached log file). This seems to happen only if I make changes to the capture sources - if I change the Mux, etc, those changes stick. Hopefully sub can weigh in on this.

[sub]

I think the problem originates with an error generated by the WDM Software Recoder plugin you're trying to use.

Try removing this plugin and the capture source which uses it and hopefully the problem will go away.

[topperdude]

Sub,

I tried what you suggested and it worked initially but is again giving some ununsual problems:

a) After mapping the digital channels in the BDA source config, I noticed the channels listed/appended for ATSC the TV Guide are different than the channels I mapped in the BDA config section.
For example, I mapped channel 189 to our local OTA NBC affiliate but the TV Guide lists 189 as the analog Public Access channel. Now, I should note that initially I had (incorrectly) selected ALL OTA channels (not just the HDTV channels) in zap2it and so all of these were showing up in TV Guide. I hoped that if I went to zap2it and only selected the channels that I care for and then did an "UpdateEPG" and mapped the selected channels, that the channels in the channel list (in Config) and TV Guide (in GBPVR) would be updated automatically. I found that it did update the list, but it lists certain channels that are not supposed to be listed in place of ones that I had selected in zap2it and mapped in the BDA config screen.

Also, last night noticed only analog tuning was working, digital was not. And Analog tuning worked only when I was sitting in front of the PC with GB-PVR (Server). Neither Analog nor digital would work if I tried to watch TV from the GB-PVR (client) machine. Error for digital not working on Server was "failed to communicate with the tuner" and the error when trying it on client PC was "no tuners present".

Looking through the GBPVR logs and event viewer, looked like:
a) GBPVR Recording Service was crashing with modname as psisdecd.dll
b) Some GBPVR log (not sure exactly which one) showed that it could not find a mux filter.
c) Config changes take forever to save (almost 2 minutes yesterday)
Sorry I do not have the logs with me at this time, but can attach once I am in front of the GBPVR Server PC.

I have configured BDA driver to use the TS-Mux since I'm using W2K. I also came across this, for updating psisdecd.dll but not sure if I can install it on W2K?

Also, is there a way to confirm whether the SQLLite database may be corrupt? Can I just rename the .db3 file and then copy/rename the empty.db3to start with a fresh config database? I guess I will have to reconfigure everything and will probably lose all the entries for my recordings, but at this stage reconfiguring everything might be quicker than spending time to debug the issue. Regarding recorded shows, I am guessing I should still able to view them through Video recordings sections.

Would appreciate any thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks,
-Topper

[sub]

a) GBPVR Recording Service was crashing with modname as psisdecd.dll

I've never experienced this specific crash myself, but I know Microsoft have release a patch that fixed the problem for some users: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/896626.

b) Some GBPVR log (not sure exactly which one) showed that it could not find a mux filter.

The video library checks for the existance of the Cyberlink mux to determine if it should show the '.DVR-MS to .MPG' transcode option. Its probably this you saw, and not something to worry about.

I also came across this, for updating psisdecd.dll but not sure if I can install it on W2K?

Ah, you found that already. To be honest, I'm not sure on Win2K. I'd give it a go - since I dont really have any other suggestion for this one. This file isnt a file GB-PVR uses, but I think it is something BDA uses behind the scenes to monitor for ATSC channel numbers etc (not needed in GB-PVR since it uses its own PsiParser.ax).

I just rename the .db3 file and then copy/rename the empty.db3to start with a fresh config database?

Yes, probably worth doing to clean up your channel number problems.

[topperdude]

Great! Thanks for the feedback. Will try out some things to see if that works, else attach the logs in case it tells you something I missed.

Thanks again,
-Topper

[topperdude]

I re-installed GBPVR and reconfigured the Capture Sources. Setup "HVR 1600 Analog", "ATI AIW Radeon with Software Recorder" plugin and "HVR 1600 ATSC", in that order.

Things were working great until this past weekend till GBPVR did an update of the EPG. When it updated the EPG, noticed the channel list under "AIW Radeon" and "HVR 1600 ATSC" sources keep adding duplicate entries while channel list under "HVR 1600 Analog" does not change. Subsequently, when I try to run GBPVR and open TV Guide, it says TV Guide not setup (or something to that effect). Could this be due to the problem described here (did not see that post while I was trying to figure out the problem late last night)? Will plan on trying the fix in that post later in the evening unless someone feels the problem could be caused due to some other issue.

Also, noticed Hauppauge released a version of their software for the HVR 1600with QAM support. I have model 74021 of the card which Hauppauge says should be supported. Not sure if it would work with W2K SP4 tho', either with the next release of GB-PVR next version or Hauppauge's own software?

If Hauppauge's beta software won't work w/ W2K, can the existing W2K drivers be 'tweaked' to make QAM work with GB-PVR's next release on W2K. I've seen other drivers that list WinXP and not W2K, but these drivers do work with W2K (even if some of them require some 'tweaking' of ini files, etc) due to the similar architecture of these operating systems. Not sure if this applies to HVR-1600 drivers used by GB-PVR, tho'?

In short, would appreciate any thoughts on HVR-1600 w/ QAM on W2K and if it can or cannot work?

Thanks for any input,
-Topper