ATI 650 pci prob in Vista

[mikiem]

Hi
Wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts, things that I might try, magic spells etc... I’m trying to get an ATI branded theater 650 (pci) card working with QAM in Vista Home Prem. SP1 (32) – on a dual boot machine it seems to work fine in XP Pro SP3 (RC2). Before I describe my problems though, in fairness I want to say that there are currently some ATI driver issues that may/may not be coming into play; I’ve listed them separately below.

The 650 pci is a so-called hybrid tuner, where it’s either digital or analog but never both. The analog tuner works well just about everywhere – either OS & almost every program I’ve tried it with, including GB-PVR. The digital tuner works in just about any app that handles BDA in XP, but so far only in Vista’s Media Center. In Vista, with only the digital tuner set up, as ATSC or QAM, Config’s Channel Mapping can’t find any channels. Once it finishes it’s scan, the dialog pops up like it should (saying no channels found), but once you click OK all 3 Config windows lock. The only way to close Config is to re-boot.

In graphedt, assembling my best guess of the graph GB-PVR lists in it’s log produces a black window, but then I don’t see any way to select any channels in the graph either, so that may be normal. Once Config stalls, running the same graph gives an error message that the “requested resource is in use. (Return code 0x800700aa)”. However, running the Tuning Assistant the analog tuner seems to be working just fine. This makes me think that maybe one or more of the BDA graph components is being accessed, but not the card itself – otherwise the analog portion wouldn’t work since it can only be analog or digital – and that might explain why channel mapping both doesn’t find anything and won’t (maybe can’t) release whatever to shut down.
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ATI driver problems:... ATI’s got some driver problems right now that are “somewhat” well known – you might not hear anything about it and then stumble on a couple of 50+ page problem threads. I want to be up-front in saying that, while I don’t believe the problem I posted – not finding any digital channels – is related/caused by ATI’s current driver mess, I could be wrong. I’d much rather have someone say that they don’t want to screw with it because of the driver situation, instead of getting upset later, wanting to know why I never mentioned anything.

1) ATI’s 8.3 graphics card drivers have some compatibility problems, and it’s difficult if not impossible to revert back to version 8.2. 2) Both ATI & Nvidia are having problems that show up in Vista as the driver crashing and recovering, often leading to a system crash. 3) ATI is *probably* still trying to get their digital tuner drivers working in Vista & for QAM... This is based on both threads I’ve read & ATI telling me (& others) that they would release a new CMC if/when they got things working.

In my case I’m experiencing problems trying to revert back to CCC driver set 8.2 – settings are retained from 8.3 so that the avivo pages in CCC cause a crash (in Vista it’s the ATIKmdag crash I mentioned above). In 8.3, *analog* (only) channel scans in CMC cause a crash in XP. Flipping analog channels rapidly in either OS can cause a random, intermittent crash – going back to 8.2 cures that problem, but introduces the (dueling?) avivo conflict. The 650 drivers are unchanged since 12/07.
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[sub]

Config’s Channel Mapping can’t find any channels

Run reregisterfilters.bat, then try scanning again. Since you're on vista you'll need to run it from a command prompt which was started with 'run as administrator'.

If that doesnt work then zip and attach the logs and I'll take a look.

[mikiem]

Thanks!

Ran the .bat file, got confirmation on each .ax file, & double-checked with AnalogX' DXMan that all were registered & found. Tried scanning OTA ATSC as antenna was still hooked up from earlier test -> no difference. Re-booted to close Config & re-connect coax from cable, moved older log entries (clutter), set 650 to QAM, closed config to save/write data, tried scanning as QAM -> no difference. Copied fresh log entries (1 still in use -- haven't re-booted yet), zipped & attached.

Thanks again.

[sub]

2008-03-19 18:34:33.337 ERROR Failed to start BDA Graph
2008-03-19 18:34:33.338 VERBOSE ERROR_DEVICE_NOT_CONNECTED

It never manages to start the device, so its not going to find any channels. Make sure the device isnt being used elsewhere on the machine (like MCE services that hold onto the device)

[mikiem]

Thanks!

Well... Double checked everything running in Services & Task Mgr, then ran autoruns from Sys. Internals, and turned off anything that remotely looked like it might possibly latch onto the digital tuner. After re-boot it made no difference.

Thought maybe there was some kind of DS filter conflict – something getting called that wasn’t listed that was preventing drivers &/or graph from loading. And I found that the Cinemaster audio decoder was being used along with the Cyberlink Power DVD 7 video decoder, although the MS MPG decoder was listed in Config as preferred. I could remove the Cyberlink folder after choosing the MS video decoder, and that didn’t have any effect. I tried removing the folder with the Cinemaster filter, but the mapping froze at initializing the card. SO I used filmerit to knock down the Cinemaster audio and that took care of that problem – it was no longer loaded – but the graph still wouldn’t build and mapping/scanning still didn’t work.

I tried building a graph in graphedt, really just guessing, using all the filters listed in the log: the MS Network Provider feeding the ATI BDA Digital Tuner, & that went to the ATI BDA Digital Capture device... That led to the MPEG-2 Demultiplexer, with pin1 going to the BDA MPEG2 Transport Information filter, pin 2 going to MPEG2 Sections and Tables, pin 3 to Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder (PDVD7), pin 4 to the Microsoft MPEG-1/DD Audio Decoder, & pin 5 to the GB-PVR PSI Parser. The MS audio decoder led to the Default Direct Sound Device, and the Cybelink Decoder to Input 0 of VMR9. As before it just gives a black window, but I haven’t figured out how to send a tuning request. If I try running the graph while Config’s mapping is in progress, I get an error. Of course this graph may be waaay off, as I just guessed at pin assignments based partly on what graphedt inserted itself and partly on what would connect.

About the only other thing I can think of at the moment is to restore Vista, then boot into XP and see what happens when I try building this same graph there.

[mikiem]

Trying to muddle through this as best I can, with more stubbornness than knowledge I’m afraid, moving pretty slowly with a combo of carefulness and a desire to maybe learn a bit...

I don’t know if there’s a way to tell GB-PVR to use the Microsoft Network Provider instead of the Microsoft ATSC Network provider, but in a nutshell that *might* solve the problem I was having – any hints, suggestions, links etc would be greatly appreciated. In the post where 5l4k3r got the 650 working with QAM, the necessary entry in bda.ini was mentioned – is there a post or page somewhere explaining those settings for example, & might that work?
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It *seems* that in XP Pro SP3 RC2, “MSDvbNP.ax” serves as the BDA Network Providers: the 4 individual providers listed – the Microsoft ATSC, DVBC, DVBS, & DVBT Network Providers – all use the same file with different friendly or descriptive names & CLSIDs in the registry. Vista has it’s version of the MSDvbNP.ax file, and while it’s been updated for various hot-fixes (mostly language/country specific *I think*), it hasn’t been updated in the US release of Vista Home Prem, and is ignored by SP1.

Using Graphedt in XP, the Microsoft ATSC Network Provider source filter will connect to the ATI BDA Digital Tuner. Guessing at a graph, using the filters listed in the config.exe-native.log after starting channel mapping in GB-PVR’s Config, Graphedt will display a video window, though the contents are black. [note: closing the video window or clicking the stop button stalls Graphedt, produces an error, and the program has to be closed using Task Mgr.]

Creating the *exact* same graph in Vista doesn’t work... I thought it did but I was either sloppy or dyslexic or both (I actually do have occasional prob. with dyslexia, but consider myself sloppy when I don’t catch it). Very real Apologies either way. In Vista it’s necessary to use a fifth BDA network provider that isn’t present in XP: “Microsoft Network Provider” [no ATSC. DVBC etc.], which uses the MSNP.ax file. It’s updated in SP1 I believe, & *may* be the direction MS & ATI are heading – however I couldn’t find much hard info on this file or MSDvbNP.ax.

Since the ATI ATSC tuner won’t connect with the ATSC provider, thought maybe I’d get lucky and use the XP version of MSDvbNP.ax. It’s a bit of work to replace the locked file with the XP version, & didn’t have any effect when I did perform the swap. I didn’t spot a cure in the Registry either, comparing keys exported from XP. Swapping in the 2 driver files for the 650 worked, though that does scare me a bit considering the possibly mucked up state ATI’s drivers are in this month – I’ve tried the swap before for other problems, but I’ve never had disabling the 650 in Device Mgr. crash the system! After a disc check & swap in XP however, Vista actually did fire up, and GB-PVR’s Config was able to build the graph and do a successful channel scan. Firing up Vista’s MC, I actually got a picture with Live TV using the analog tuner, so it *may* actually work...

On-the-other-hand, if it’s not too painful or hard to get GB-PVR to use Network Provider #5, and if that works, it might be safer, and probably would be something more 650 owners would be interested in as a more-or-less no-fuss install.

Thanks

[mikiem]

Trying a quick couple of attempts to get GB-PVR to use the Microsoft Network Provider filter in Vista... I’m guessing that the device entries in BDA.ini set the network provider filter that GB-PVR uses in attempting to build a graph for channel scanning etc... Trying to change that to something other than the 4 filters present in XP, or deleting the entry all together, causes an error – Config validating entries?

The simplest reg hack, setting the Microsoft ATSC Network provider to the msnp.ax file instead of msdvbnp.ax doesn’t appear to work, with an error that resources are in use – maybe it does work but there really are resources already in use?

Thanks

[sub]

I dont think its anything to do with the Network Provider. It finds the provider using a GUID, and doesnt know about what .ax file it lives in. There are heaps of ATSC user running on Vista without any problems.

Are you sure vista's media center isnt using the device?

[blisbell]

Im having the same proplem as the original poster.Lockups no atsc or qam.
vista 32 or 64
Tried everything,it does work in xp no go in vista.Media Center has never been used.The crashes Im getting are multiple irp complete request.

[sub]

Tried everything,it does work in xp no go in vista.Media Center has never been used.The crashes Im getting are multiple irp complete request.

Its definitely sounding like driver bugs to me.