Two sources, different EPGs, same station name, different channel numbers

[dennit]

Situation: Two sources have independent EPGs in XMLTV format. Both XML listings supply the same station with the same ID name, but on different channel numbers. For example, one source (source_oid=1) is analog cable NTSC and has the local WXYZ name associated with channel 7. Another is digital cable (source_oid=2) and has the same guide data for WXYZ on channel 107.

If the XMLTV guide data for source 2 identifies the channel as WXYZDT, then the EPG shows both channels as separate channels. However, if the source 2 guide data calls it WXYZ (same name as the analog) then only the channel 7 is in the EPG. The channel 107 is not.

In this case of two identical names, GBPVR will show one of the sources when live TV is selected and show the other if the first source is busy recording. This is good. It knows it can get the program even when source 2 is busy.

I'm trying to understand this operation better. Which source will it preferentially show (live TV) or record if neither is busy? Does it decide by source number? I prefer the digital as it's better quality.

Suppose they have the same WXYZ name, guide data currently appears under 7 (with other analog listings) but I want to have the data for WXYZ listed in the EPG under 107, and not 7 (so I know I have a good digital source, not just an analog source). What can I change to get the listing under 107?

Thanks.

[bgowland]

Firstly channel numbers are for human convenience and don't play a part in allocating capture sources for recording or when watching live TV. They're used to assign order of channels in the TV Guide and also to allow you to switch channels when watching TV.

Recordings are allocated 'top down' to the cap. sources as viewed in the list in the Config app. and live TV from the bottom up.

Channels are imported by name so if both of your guide sources have WXYZ as channel 7, it will allow you to map that channel and the same data to both tuners. This means (with the setup you have at the moment) if you watch the channel you'll get digital but any recordings for that channel will normally be analogue unless the analogue tuner already has something assigned at which point the recording will be allocated to the digital cap. source.

In order to force preference for digital and also allow digital for live TV (where possible), you need to...

1. Swap order of the cap. sources
   
2. Have both guide sources with channel data for channel number 7 and name WXYZ
   
3. Have ONLY the guide source for the digital cable have a dummy channel with number 107 and name WXYZDT
   

IF you then always schedule recordings to WXYZ, digital will be preferred but allowing for failover to analogue. You'll then also be able to select a digital preference for live TV by selectiong 107 to get WXYZDT.

Cheers,
Brian

[mmatheny]

By swap the cap. sources, do you mean to put the digital capture sources at the top, or the other way around?

[bgowland]

In dennit's description he/she says that the analogue source is source_oid=1 and the digital is source_oid=2 which suggests that the analogue one is currently at the top.

So, yes, to set the digital one for recording preference, it needs to go to the top.

[dennit]

Firstly channel numbers are for human convenience and don't play a part in allocating capture sources for recording or when watching live TV. They're used to assign order of channels in the TV Guide and also to allow you to switch channels when watching TV.

Thanks for the reply! Am I correct in thinking channel numbers also play no part in connecting the XML guide data to the EPG entry in gbpvr.db3? IOW, it's the name WXYZ that makes that connection? I've noticed that the XMLTV format guide data has multiple identification references on separate lines for each channel It may have such as "7" "WXYZ" "Local network Affiliate Name" etc. on those lines, and I've never been sure if the order in the XMLTV file matters.

Recordings are allocated 'top down' to the cap. sources as viewed in the list in the Config app. and live TV from the bottom up.

The "list" you refer to would be the list of sources, correct? I've noticed in gbpvr.db3 that the sources have a source number (which matches the number in the SCAN.CACHE) and a separate allocation number (I think that's what it was called) that controls the order that they appear in the list of sources. Do you know if I can just change the allocation number instead of actually changing the source id number?

Channels are imported by name so if both of your guide sources have WXYZ as channel 7,

(they don't, they both have the same name, but not the same #)

it will allow you to map that channel and the same data to both tuners. This means (with the setup you have at the moment) if you watch the channel you'll get digital

because digital appears lower in my list of sources -yes? I'll get sub mad at me, but I played with the allocation order entry in gbpvr.db3 so the 6 sources I had set up would sort nicely. The allocation order didn't match the source id # anyway. I've got some missing source numbers that I deleted and multiple sources had the same allocation number. Does allocation number control (it definitely controls the order they appear in the source list) or the source id number (which definitely controls the number in the SCAN.CACHE file) ?

but any recordings for that channel will normally be analogue unless the analogue tuner already has something assigned at which point the recording will be allocated to the digital cap. source.

because the analogue is higher in the source order list than the digital - yes?

In order to force preference for digital and also allow digital for live TV (where possible), you need to...

1. Swap order of the cap. sources

This is trivial if the allocation number is controlling. I can pop in and change that in gbpvr.db3. It seemed to have no other effect other than to change the sequence they are listed in config. It's harder if I have to delete and re-add sources

Have both guide sources with channel data for channel number 7 and name WXYZ

Hmmmm. Do I have to change the channel number for 107 to 7 inside the XMLTV format XML guide data file for digital, or can I tell GBPVR to do this in config?

Have ONLY the guide source for the digital cable have a dummy channel with number 107 and name WXYZDT

I presume you do this by adding the dummy channel to the source inside config.

IF you then always schedule recordings to WXYZ, digital will be preferred but allowing for failover to analogue. You'll then also be able to select a digital preference for live TV by selectiong 107 to get WXYZDT.

Cool! That's exactly the type of setup I want.
Thanks for the reply! You've actually given me enough to get there by myself, but if you have any answers to the questions above, they'd be gratefully received.

[mmatheny]

In dennit's description he/she says that the analogue source is source_oid=1 and the digital is source_oid=2 which suggests that the analogue one is currently at the top.

So, yes, to set the digital one for recording preference, it needs to go to the top.

In the Capture devices tab, there is different nomenclature for Card #, i.e. in the Digital part is says Card #x, in the Analog part it says Capture Device #x

Are these synonymous? As long as one digital and one analog is set to something #1, and the other pair is set to something #2, is that the way to set it up?

[bgowland]

Thanks for the reply! Am I correct in thinking channel numbers also play no part in connecting the XML guide data to the EPG entry in gbpvr.db3? IOW, it's the name WXYZ that makes that connection? I've noticed that the XMLTV format guide data has multiple identification references on separate lines for each channel It may have such as "7" "WXYZ" "Local network Affiliate Name" etc. on those lines, and I've never been sure if the order in the XMLTV file matters.

I think the import mechanism for xmltv will behave differently depending on the contents of the xmltv file. For example, my xmltv source doesn't include channel numbers - in this instance, a first time import simply allocates the numbers sequentially in the order they are in the file. Any subsequent import then works purely on channel names.

The "list" you refer to would be the list of sources, correct? I've noticed in gbpvr.db3 that the sources have a source number (which matches the number in the SCAN.CACHE) and a separate allocation number (I think that's what it was called) that controls the order that they appear in the list of sources. Do you know if I can just change the allocation number instead of actually changing the source id number?

Yes - the list where you Add/Edit/Remove capture sources in the Config app.

The list should be ordered using the allocation_order field in the DB. If you look to the right of the list, there are two small buttons - the left will move a source up and the right will move it down. They should have arrows on them but mine are blank for some reason. The lower the allocation_order number, the more it is preferred for recordings and the higher the number means it's preferred for live tv.

Hmmmm. Do I have to change the channel number for 107 to 7 inside the XMLTV format XML guide data file for digital, or can I tell GBPVR to do this in config?

You'll need to experiment but, assuming further imports don't match on channel number, you should just be able to renumber the WXYZ on the digital source to be 7. After that add the 107 WXYZDT dummy channel manually and set its tuning to match WXYZ on the digital source.

Cheers,
Brian

[bgowland]

In the Capture devices tab, there is different nomenclature for Card #, i.e. in the Digital part is says Card #x, in the Analog part it says Capture Device #x

Yes these mean the same thing.

There not to do with allocation order however - they relate to the 'instance' of the software driver. If you have two cards of the same type OR two different models of card which use the same software driver, these numbers must be unique. If the cards are totally different, i.e., use different software drivers, they would be both #1 regardless of whether they're both analogue, both digital or one of each.

Cheers,
Brian

[mmatheny]

But, on my 2250, don't I set one analog and one digital to #1 and another analog and digital to #2?

[bgowland]

But, on my 2250, don't I set one analog and one digital to #1 and another analog and digital to #2?

Urrrm... yes for precisely the reason I described. You have two analogue tuners of the same 'type' therefore they use the same software driver 'type' so must be #1 and #2. The same applies to the two digital tuners.