Does NextPVR support DRM?

[sub]

I just have to ask since I went through the hassle of buying two Silicon Dust cable devices and upgrading to v5 only to find out that the "Premium" channels are verboten.

I do NOT want to record them, just be able to view them. If Microsoft could do it with Media Center, it's obviously not totally illegal, so I'm trying to understand the rationale of not even allowing the viewing of such channels. I have investigated things and apparently NextPVR could allow viewing and disallow recording, so if recording is the problem because of DRM that is not an issue.  Besides, if the CableCARD enables the channel (regardless of the DRM setting), then the user has the right to view the station in question because the cable company has enabled it.  Therefore NextPVR would not be out of line to at least allow the viewing of the channel and disallowing recording due to DRM.

Why is it that NextPVR cannot at least allow viewing of these DRM channels? Silicon Dust allows it through their Home Run software (so it is possible) but their interface and station directory leaves a LOT to be desired.

I'm not trying to cause a fight here, I am just trying to understand what the thought process was that emasculated NextPVR (and every other open source solution available).  Because there has to be a reason that I have yet to find using Google/Bing/etc. for not supporting such channels.

It basically comes down to requiring $200K+ to cover CableLabs certification and licensing to get the keys for decrypting the content, and on-going recertification of new versions etc. Too rich for our blood. The device will not give NextPVR the streams without these keys. (ie, it's not a case of NextPVR just deciding not to let you view/record them)

Going down this path would also impose all sorts of restrictions on NextPVR, like not being to stream protected content to clients (like Kodi etc), needing to encrypt recordings on disk, and only allow playback to a monitor protected via an HDCP connection.

[mvallevand]

The best solution for premium live TV seems to be stream pass through so that the chain is secure and Widevine on Windows and Android etc do the decryption and playback. Kodi seems to be able to handle Netflix, Hulu, Disney and Peacock etc this way. Finding a provider that provides this is the challenge.


Martin

[2leftfeet]

@jbhall,

if viewing only is your concern, what about using the HDHomerun app for Windows? There is also a kodi version of it as well as firestick. android, IOS and roku,etc. versions- they play protected content, just not record (last I checked).

[mvallevand]

AFAIK there is no Kodi app for the the HDHomerun that plays DRM.

Martin

[rosede]

Hello Everyone I have decided to rejoin the NPVR family, and I am very happy with this decision. Apparently Cox had a change of heart and reversed their decision to DRM all of their channels.

I have a quick question, is there an easier way to select a group of channels when setting up groups? It's really a pain to have to click on each and every channel to select/deselect when setting up groups.

Thanks

Daryl

[BrettB]

I do NOT want to record them, just be able to view them. If Microsoft could do it with Media Center, it's obviously not totally illegal, so I'm trying to understand the rationale of not even allowing the viewing of such channels. I have investigated things and apparently NextPVR could allow viewing and disallow recording, so if recording is the problem because of DRM that is not an issue.
...
Why is it that NextPVR cannot at least allow viewing of these DRM channels? Silicon Dust allows it through their Home Run software (so it is possible) but their interface and station directory leaves a LOT to be desired.

Just so that you understand, Microsoft (for Media Center) and Silicon Dust both incorporated the required restrictions (encryption for files on drives, no streaming to non-DRM supporting devices, requirement for HDCP, etc.), paid the big $, and went through the CableLabs certification process. Therefore, they can legally allow users to view and/or record protected channels if their Cable Card subscription allows them to access the channel. My understanding is that the Silicon Dust devices can't even make the encrypted streams available to non-CableLabs certified programs. In fact, if they did, I'm sure that CableLabs would revoke their certification and then they wouldn't be able to play/record DRM content in their software!

[pcostanza]

I do NOT want to record them, just be able to view them. If Microsoft could do it with Media Center, it's obviously not totally illegal, so I'm trying to understand the rationale of not even allowing the viewing of such channels. I have investigated things and apparently NextPVR could allow viewing and disallow recording, so if recording is the problem because of DRM that is not an issue.
...
Why is it that NextPVR cannot at least allow viewing of these DRM channels? Silicon Dust allows it through their Home Run software (so it is possible) but their interface and station directory leaves a LOT to be desired.

Just so that you understand, Microsoft (for Media Center) and Silicon Dust both incorporated the required restrictions (encryption for files on drives, no streaming to non-DRM supporting devices, requirement for HDCP, etc.), paid the big $, and went through the CableLabs certification process. Therefore, they can legally allow users to view and/or record protected channels if their Cable Card subscription allows them to access the channel. My understanding is that the Silicon Dust devices can't even make the encrypted streams available to non-CableLabs certified programs. In fact, if they did, I'm sure that CableLabs would revoke their certification and then they wouldn't be able to play/record DRM content in their software!

As of now Silicon can only watch protected channels and can't record them (I wish they could) unless you are running Media Center. They've promised recording for years and still, nothing.  I  know it's not their fault entirely but by the time they acquire the rights (if they do) cable cards will be dead.
Long live streaming!

[sub]

Not to detract from all the responses above, which covers the situation, but just as a tease I used to work for a TV tuner manufacturer, and we spent a lot of time working with DTCP and CableLabs, and we had certs, and could decrypt these streams from the HDHR Prime. There may even have been a "c:\users\public\NPVR\certs" directory in v4, which was empty in the public releases, but certs could have been dropped in.... (no, I will not provide you with cert files to try it out)

[pcostanza]

Aren't you the devious one?

[rosede]

I've been reading the comments about decrypting the DRM signal either in the SiliconDust device or NPVR.  In my opinion, it shouldn't be on either of those companies to provide a way to decrypt those channels, but rather the cable company.  We (I) purchase a product from said cable company and pay a rental fee on a device from said cable company to access that product.  The cable card its may not be able to decrypt the signal, but there is a "tuner" that plugs into the SiliconDust device that should be able to decrypt those channels.  To be honest, I 'm not really sure WHY I have to have this tuner, because it doesn't provide benefit that I can detect, but it is there.  This particular device itself may not be able to decrypt, but the CC should be able to provide a similar device that can decrypt.

The issue that I have with all of this is that I pay for a product, and I should be able to view/use that product.  It shouldn't matter to the CC that on the backend I'm using NPVR to watch and record that product.  I'm sure they would love for me to pay for their premium service and if this is was a way to try to force me into that, then they were going to loose me as a customer.  They (I) was fortunate that I wasn't able to cancel my service and turn in my equipment, when I wanted to (the CC isn't open on Sunday's), I most likely would have stayed away.  I am glad that the CC came to their senses and reversed their decision and removed the DRM label, but my guess is they're trying to figure out how to do it again in the future.

Daryl