npvr 2.0.3 issues and observations

[time_lord]

Hi, now that 2.0.3 is here I took the plunge a few days ago and updated from GBPVR. My system: XP SP3 on a quad core, dual-tuner HVR2200, NZ freeview using DVB-T with line of sight of kaukau.

Firstly let me say I am impressed with the setup - other than checking prerequisites and noting sentiments that npvr works well under Win7, I found setup a breeze. Sub, you've done a good job on tuner setup, much easier than gbpvr. And very timely tuning a new setup - was not aware that stratos had started broadcasting on DVB-T :-)

I have encountered a few issues which I'll list here and follow up with some usability observations...

1) When I start npvr on my 4:3 PC screen (which is a lot of the time) npvr always starts up in widescreen mode. It does not remember the last setting (although it does seem to remember the approximate size), even with 4:3 preselected in the settings. Reproducable.

2) The aspect ratio problems seem to cause drawing issues. Cycling thru them via F7 does not seem to fix; I think it can only be remedied if the window is resized when you first get to the TV guide (before viewing a channel)? See AR1.jpg; in AR2.jpg I thought I'd see a replay of '7 days' (but of course it was tsunami coverage), and when I tried to fix the aspect ratio some of the video resized but a lot of garbage would not go away.

3) I think I'd heard multiplexing was enabled in npvr so I started 'quick record' for 4 programs (cool - on my dual-tuner). When I tried starting a 5th I got a 'no tuner available' message, and after a second or 2 I tried escaping from the message... but I guess there is no focus handler in the message box and the escape exited the TV Guide instead. Reproducable.

3) After the test in (2) I started to cancel the recordings, but after cancelling the second, npvr hung. Wonder if it was caused by npvr freeing up one muxed channel per tuner or both on one tuner... not sure which order I tried to free them in... I could test again if this isn't a known issue.

4) After killing NextPVR and NRecord, restarted the recording service via NTray, then started nPVR again. after killing other 2 recordings (presumably resumed after service restart) NextPVR was using 16-25% CPU and I was only sitting on the TV Guide screen.

5) It seems the status of the tray service does not always show activity - more than once I've started a quick record and the tray status shows nothing. Also on sunday I started quick record of one program (program had already started) and then quickly started another, but after selecting the second when I returned to the quide, it no longer showed the first in red. Under recordings it shows both as failed, 'device failed to start' but I have no idea why that would be so in this case.

Observations:

6) IMHO the TV guide is harder to read... would be easier with a smaller font and making more use of the lower part of the screen (or instead of displaying 8 channels, 7 like gbpvr) - see guide-old.jpg, guide-new.jpg. Maybe my default font is defaulting to bigger than expected (although I have no special XP theme setup) - I've seen quite a few bits of truncated text - couple of examples in truncations.jpg.

7) In the TV guide the current time marker shaded all currently playing programs in grey in gbpvr - it was easier to see where programs start, finish and overlap. Also very handy if scrolling forward several hours, serves as a great visual marker in the guide when scrolling back.

So there is my little list. I really like the feel of npvr but on my rig it does not (yet) seem as robust as gbpvr. Anyone else encountered any/some of these issues?

Cheers

[hoborg]

2) That is bug in VMR9 renderer (HW deinterlacing).
What you can do:
-use software deinterlacing (turn off DxVA, use deinterlacing in FFDshow, etc...)
-use EVR renderer - this will kill h.264/VC-1 DxVA on XP
-use Vista/Win7 + EVR. This is only "true" solution right now

Whole thread about this issue is here:
http://forums.nextpvr.com/showthread.php...28WinXP%29

[sub]

1) When I start npvr on my 4:3 PC screen (which is a lot of the time) npvr always starts up in widescreen mode. It does not remember the last setting (although it does seem to remember the approximate size), even with 4:3 preselected in the settings. Reproducable.

Do you mean the size of the NPVR window? Live GB-PVR, the window size is always relative to your desktop. ie if you have it half the width of your monitor, then it'll also be half the height. The TV Shape setting is really just used as a factor when determining the aspect ratio during video playback.

2) The aspect ratio problems seem to cause drawing issues. Cycling thru them via F7 does not seem to fix; I think it can only be remedied if the window is resized when you first get to the TV guide (before viewing a channel)? See AR1.jpg; in AR2.jpg I thought I'd see a replay of '7 days' (but of course it was tsunami coverage), and when I tried to fix the aspect ratio some of the video resized but a lot of garbage would not go away.

See Hoborg's comment above.

3) I think I'd heard multiplexing was enabled in npvr so I started 'quick record' for 4 programs (cool - on my dual-tuner). When I tried starting a 5th I got a 'no tuner available' message, and after a second or 2 I tried escaping from the message... but I guess there is no focus handler in the message box and the escape exited the TV Guide instead. Reproducable.

I'm fairly sure you must be talking about the status message overlay, which is overlad on the screen, and auto disappears after a few seconds. These messages are not meant to be interacted with, they're just telling you something then go away on their own. They screen you're using is still fully functional while these messages are visible. I dont seen any need to change the way these work. I'm sure you'll get use to them pretty quickly.

3) After the test in (2) I started to cancel the recordings, but after cancelling the second, npvr hung. Wonder if it was caused by npvr freeing up one muxed channel per tuner or both on one tuner... not sure which order I tried to free them in... I could test again if this isn't a known issue.

I'm not aware of any issue with this, but if you post the logs then I'll take a look.

4) After killing NextPVR and NRecord, restarted the recording service via NTray, then started nPVR again. after killing other 2 recordings (presumably resumed after service restart) NextPVR was using 16-25% CPU and I was only sitting on the TV Guide screen.

Did you install the specified DirectX runtime? This being missing is the only thing I'm aware of that can high CPU usage when just sitting at the menu.

6) IMHO the TV guide is harder to read... would be easier with a smaller font and making more use of the lower part of the screen (or instead of displaying 8 channels, 7 like gbpvr) - see guide-old.jpg, guide-new.jpg. Maybe my default font is defaulting to bigger than expected (although I have no special XP theme setup)

I guess this is just stylistic preferences, and situation where I cant please everyone. I think the NPVR guide looks a million times nicer than the GBPVR one, and its very easy to read on my TV. Like me, most people are using widescreen flatpanels these days, with decent resolution, so I guess that was the target setup I was really aiming for.

I've seen quite a few bits of truncated text - couple of examples in truncations.jpg.

Admittedly, I dont do any testing on 4:3 screens these, so I'm guessing there is a few areas that can have some truncation like this. Its kind of complicated though, and there are few factors involved. What desktop resolution are you running? If you go into Settings -> General, and set your UI Resolution to '800x600', does it help with this truncation?

7) In the TV guide the current time marker shaded all currently playing programs in grey in gbpvr - it was easier to see where programs start, finish and overlap. Also very handy if scrolling forward several hours, serves as a great visual marker in the guide when scrolling back.

I keep meaning to add this. It's written on my to-do list for the next release.

[time_lord]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply...

Do you mean the size of the NPVR window? Live GB-PVR, the window size is always relative to your desktop. ie if you have it half the width of your monitor, then it'll also be half the height. The TV Shape setting is really just used as a factor when determining the aspect ratio during video playback.

Hmmm, I was certain with gbpvr that if I made the window - say - very close (but not quite) full screen, or very small, next time I ran gbpvr it would be the same size (and not 50% of width). Will try again tonight. Regardless, gbpvr seemed to get the aspect ratio right.

See Hoborg's comment above.

Interesting, will try out. What I didn't mention in my original post was the trial & error I had initially with decoders and renderers... but after checking the old gbpvr settings, seems the same setup mostly works (VMR9, PDVD9 via SAF pack). Since this combo works smoothly for me under gbpvr, thought it would continue to do so under npvr?

I'm fairly sure you must be talking about the status message overlay, which is overlad on the screen, and auto disappears after a few seconds. <snip> I dont seen any need to change the way these work.

That's cool :-)

I'm not aware of any issue with this, but if you post the logs then I'll take a look.

Will pummel the system tonight and try to reproduce ;-)

Did you install the specified DirectX runtime?

Yes I think so (the download instructions just say directX, not too specific on which build)? Initially although I had 9.0c already installed, I was getting a message under settings saying 'directX is not installed'. CPU usage was a steady 15-20%. So I applied directX build 1962 which I had a copy of and CPU load went down to almost nothing. But when I encountered issue (4), it was long after I'd updated to build 1962. (I see there is a build 1973, but can only find a web installer and no offline installer... do I need 1973?)
Edit: I checked the link and it does take me to 1973... is there an important difference between that and 1962?

I guess this is just stylistic preferences...

That's cool. I usually set up/review recordings etc at my PC and only watch playback of entire programs on my widescreen TV (40" Z-series goodness ;-) ). So I often see the guide in 4:3 mode.

Admittedly, I dont do any testing on 4:3 screens these, so I'm guessing there is a few areas that can have some truncation like this. Its kind of complicated though, and there are few factors involved. What desktop resolution are you running? If you go into Settings -> General, and set your UI Resolution to '800x600', does it help with this truncation?

My monitor is 1280x1024, iirc... or possibly 1152x864. Will test tonight.

I keep meaning to add this. It's written on my to-do list for the next release.

Awesome, that's a really nice-to-have.

Cheers sub!

[sub]

Interesting, will try out. What I didn't mention in my original post was the trial & error I had initially with decoders and renderers... but after checking the old gbpvr settings, seems the same setup mostly works (VMR9, PDVD9 via SAF pack). Since this combo works smoothly for me under gbpvr, thought it would continue to do so under npvr?

GBPVR's config app never let you choose the 'VMR9' renderer. Instead it only let you choose 'VMR9 Custom' or 'VMR9 Fullscreen Exclusive', which attempt to avoid the problem by using Direct3D for doing the rendering.

Yes I think so (the download instructions just say directX, not too specific on which build)?

It specifically provides this link: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/de...laylang=en

Initially although I had 9.0c already installed, I was getting a message under settings saying 'directX is not installed'. CPU usage was a steady 15-20%. So I applied directX build 1962 which I had a copy of and CPU load went down to almost nothing. But when I encountered issue (4), it was long after I'd updated to build 1962. (I see there is a build 1973, but can only find a web installer and no offline installer... do I need 1973?)
Edit: I checked the link and it does take me to 1973... is there an important difference between that and 1962?

I couldnt tell you what the difference is between the two. All I know is the link I provided was what was mentioned in the documentation for SlimDX library I use for doing my Direct3D stuff. This link I've provided is all others have required to get their DirectX working. Other versions may work, but I havnt tested them.

[time_lord]

GBPVR's config app never let you choose the 'VMR9' renderer. Instead it only let you choose 'VMR9 Custom'....

Sorry yeah my bad, I do recall it was custom I chose...

It specifically provides this link: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/de...laylang=en

Sorry, my mistake, the text on the link only says 9.0c (which I have so I didn't follow the link) not specifically build 1973. I'll update from 1962 and see how it goes...

[sub]

Sorry yeah my bad, I do recall it was custom I chose...

Yeah that'd make sense. VMR9 Custom on GBPVR and NPVR do not have the problem.

As mentioned though, you can use VMR9 standard, but you'll probably need to disable hardware acceleration.

Sorry, my mistake, the text on the link only says 9.0c (which I have so I didn't follow the link) not specifically build 1973. I'll update from 1962 and see how it goes...

In my original posts about NPVR's requirements, I'd specifially not mentioned the version and instead just provided the link, but somewhere along the way to the wiki the 9.0c text was added by someone, which I think has lead to the occasional user not clicking on the link. How important that specific versions, I dont know...

[time_lord]

1.

Do you mean the size of the NPVR window? Live GB-PVR, the window size is always relative to your desktop.

I tested and tested this and it seems initial/startup detection of screen aspect ratio (mine 4:3) is not working (at least for me). After I start npvr I drag one side of window by a couple of pixels and npvr seems to suddenly see the right AR and adjust the npvr window correctly - see OriginalSize.jpg. If I exit npvr and start again, the AR is like that in SizeAfterRestart.jpg - same with but height smaller. Took a screengrab and measured pixels; it seems to be approx 14:9.
I have a theory (sorry not at home so haven't tested) - I've told npvr to go straight to the tv guide when starting, not the initial menu screen - could it be skipping some screen sizing stuff?

2.

See Hoborg's comment above.

Cheers, VMR9 Custom works much better

3. Re the hang - have not had a chance to test yet...

4. CPU, DirectX...

Did you install the specified DirectX runtime?

Got to the bottom of this - appears 1962 is the latest directx 9.0c redistributable... the online-only web installer is 1973. Apparently the web installer was rebuilt for some unspecified reason, so has a higher build id, but it simply redirects you to 1962. Go-o-o-o Microsoft!

5. Last night I set two programs to record this morning; have not had a chance yet to see if they worked. Regardless, when set them up and looked at the npvr tray recording status, it showed nothing under 'pending'. (If I watch a channel it does show one of the tuners as in-use, so it seems to be not totally unremoved...)

Admittedly, I dont do any testing on 4:3 screens these, so I'm guessing there is a few areas that can have some truncation like this. Its kind of complicated though, and there are few factors involved. What desktop resolution are you running? If you go into Settings -> General, and set your UI Resolution to '800x600', does it help with this truncation?

Confirmed I have 1280x1024 resolution. Changing the npvr setting from auto to 800x600 did help to some degree - in those last screenshots, 'Quick Record' became fully visible. The hh:mm at the end of the timeline seemed to have more room but was still a bit truncated. Do the text and timeline components have a leading-centre-trailing layout, or absolute positioning? If the latter I can imaging it being hard to calculate the right values... don't know anything about layout managers in .net, but maybe that is where the problem is?

[mvallevand]

1.

I tested and tested this and it seems initial/startup detection of screen aspect ratio (mine 4:3) is not working (at least for me).

I'm sure I've posted on this for a few times and I've rethought me feeling that it is a problem. In one post sub explained that if you run it will be 4x3 on a 4x3 monitor. The reason I rethought it, is that I could find no reason to justify running 4x3 windowed on a 16x9 monitor when NPVR is optimized for 16x9. Well one, skin design, but it is a simple matter to adjust the screen size a little bit to force it to redraw to 4x3.

Martin

[sub]

5. Last night I set two programs to record this morning; have not had a chance yet to see if they worked. Regardless, when set them up and looked at the npvr tray recording status, it showed nothing under 'pending'.

This is normal. As of a couple of releases ago, the pending information is no longer supplied to the tray app. It was causing performance problems for some users so was disabled. It may make a return in a future release if I find a way to make it work without causing this problem.

Confirmed I have 1280x1024 resolution. Changing the npvr setting from auto to 800x600 did help to some degree - in those last screenshots, 'Quick Record' became fully visible. The hh:mm at the end of the timeline seemed to have more room but was still a bit truncated. Do the text and timeline components have a leading-centre-trailing layout, or absolute positioning? If the latter I can imaging it being hard to calculate the right values... don't know anything about layout managers in .net, but maybe that is where the problem is?

The app does it's best to renderer the screen same regardless of resolution, but the reality is that there is a lot less horizontal space in 4x3, and some of the text fields specified in the skin files would need to be bigger to accommodate the full text without truncating. 1280 divied by 1028 = 1.24, while 800 divided by 600 = 1.333, which gives you slightly higher horizontal resolution.

I cant see those NPVR screenshots. Way too small for my eyes.