Hauppauge WinTV-quadHD PCIe

[DVRMultiStreamer]

I'm not sure where it's from - just an avatar picked at random after browsing for an image.

If you can visit the Settings->Devices screen, then post the logs, I'll see if there was any obvious reason it wasn't seeing the other two tuners. I can't fix old versions though, and it's unlikely XP/Vista support will return in the future. It's just too much effort these days considering so few people using these. Sorry!

I thought the Avatar had come from the Powder Puff Girls or something similar the way it was drawn.

Actually XP stole it's thunder from Vista. In fact even today they are estimated about 50 Million computers with XP installed online still present. Offline I estimate another 10-20 Million are used for DVRs or for offline usage machines. So around 60-70 Million systems with XP either online or offline.

Australia's population seems to be about 25 Million and New Zealand is about 5 million. So at least double the population of that combined are using XP globally.

XP shares the same code with XP POS 2009 which has security updates till mid 2019. 2003 also shares the same code and can access 64GB of DDR4 ram on it. So since even Coffee Lake 300 Series is capped at 64GB it is still usable on modern systems.

Vista Ultimate 64-Bit upgraded to SP2 and adding the DirectX v11.0 Patch actually is faster than Windows 7 SP1.

Unfortunately XP 32-Bit was so widely adopted in the US, China, India, and probably most of Europe. I'm not too certain if Australia actually jumped onto XP or skipped XP to Windows 7 from Windows 2000 or Windows 98. Since Australia is so far away it's hard to estimate if they get Windows OS widespread as quickly as the United States. Back then in the late 90s or early 2000s did being in New Zealand make it harder to have received the newest OS or did people hunker down with an older OS much longer than say the Australian mainland?

I had thought perhaps since New Zealand was so distant that it may hold onto older Operating Systems longer than the rest of the World but given your recent statement this may indicate they may update to the latest and abandon previous Operating Systems quite quickly.

Some issues with Windows 10 drivers for the WinTV Quad and other devices plagued it with the BSOD making it not suitable for stable 24/7 operation as a DVR OS. And it still continually receives OS update patches which causes programs to break or even corrupt the OS.

Windows Vista SP2 DX 11 is the most stable 64-Bit OS I've tested and more stable than Windows 7 SP1. The original Vista without any service pack was buggy as hell which is what most people remember about Vista and also being very sluggish and slow since the system requirements to run it were way ahead of the average computer then.

Windows 7 came along just in time when Quad cores popped out to make use of the extra cores. Vista came out around the majority single cores crowd and Dual cores were in its infancy. XP also ran much faster and used less RAM. Those contributed to the hesitant and biased adoption of Vista. I also fell into this crowd at one point.

Windows 7 is exactly the same as Vista just with some added dependencies and a removed Quick Launch replaced by Pinning. So anything coded for Vista will work on Windows 7 which is why I was suggesting either using the same MS.NET version compiled for Next PVR v3.9.2 or v4.0.5 which seems to run just fine.

I think the Windows 8, 8.1, and 10 share a different code than Windows 7 since a lot of my Windows 7 programs don't function properly on Windows 8-10 or the OS itself intentionally disables a driver from loading that the program installed.

Actually Vista is still currently supported.

Martin

Martin when you say Vista is still currently supported are you referring to Windows Vista as an OS or Vista being supported by NextPVR?

If you meant you're using Vista with NextPVR which version did you test (v4.1, v4.2, v4.2.2) and what MS.NET version is installed on yours?

Vista is still used globally but it's a much smaller fraction than XP. Vista should be updated to SP2 and DX11 patched on run on a Quad Core the Ivy Bridge i7-3770K with at least 16GB of RAM. It runs extremely fast and stable.

Windows Server 2008 shares the same code as Vista so anything coded for Vista will function on it as well.

If you use Windows Server 2008 Enterprise Datacenter Edition it can use up to 1TB (1024GB) of RAM.

So it's still got plenty of juice left in it. In comparison Vista 64-Bit Ultimate or Enterprise are capped at 128GB of RAM which is still ahead of the 64GB max on consumer motherboards today.

Good to know - I couldn't remember what the state with Vista was. I have no Vista devices left here.

DVRMultiStreamer, you should probably retry with the latest release, and let us know what happens.

Sure Sub,

The latest release that works on Vista SP2 is NextPVR v4.0.5.

This was released on December 8th, 2017.

I tried every NextPVR version since including v4.1, v4.2, v4.2.2 and while the main interface program will run, it's once you enter the TV Guide or Recordings Menu a pop up window error will display. I'll try to upload the snapshots in another message for you.

If I can find a cheap copy off eBay to purchase a basic Vista DVD maybe I can ship it to you to install on a dummy system. One thing that makes Vista special is even if you don't authenticate it with the server it will still function so you can still test your WinTV Quad tuner local model on it to see if it doesn't see all 4 Tuners.

[DVRMultiStreamer]

Vista SP2 still runs on NextPVR v4.0.5.

Vista compatibility issues with NextPVR v4.1.0 -> v4.2.2

Pop up message during installation and post installation.

1st picture during installation of NPVR.

2nd picture attempting to access the TV Guide or Recordings Menu in NPVR.

3rd picture during booting of the OS to desktop this pops up.

Tested Multiple Instances Live Tuner Functionality.

1st Instance of NPVR - Live Tuner works
2nd Instance of NVPR - Live Tuner stays on Black screen - have to End program in Task Manager to get out

So the Multiple Instance is only good for 1 Live Tuner and the 2nd Instance for accessing the TV Guide to Program more recordings only.

I tried this multiple times and only 1 Live Tuner can happen.

-----
Now if you're recording a program and you want to watch. Sometimes attempting to watch a live program within NPVR results in a Black screen issue where you will have to end the program in Task Manager. Sometimes it will work.
Is there a way to modify the PLAY - for a live recording to use a 3rd party program to load the video instead?
For example VLC has no issues playing back a video file being recorded and would be a better solution for playing live recordings since multiple instances of recordings works fine using VLC.

If it cannot reassign to use a 3rd party program to play the file can we add an option to disable the PLAY from showing up in the Menu?

Sometimes this can get hit by accident causing either a 3-5 second delay for the live tuner or a frozen black screen issue.

CLOSE
PLAY <--- remove/disable this or MISC option to use a 3rd party program such as VLC to redirect as the video player.
UPDATE
CANCEL

-----

Under Recording Settings Menu
Pre Padding Minutes
0-60

Post Padding Minutes
0-60

In an ongoing Manual Recording
Pre Padding Minutes
0-89

Post Padding Minutes
0-89


In which file are these four values stored?

-----
In the Channels (pinned) pop up window
It always defaults to
ALL Channels category

If you change it to ATSC channels group or a customized one it doesn't remember to use the same
Channel Group and reverts back to ATSC channels. Can this be made to remember last Channel Group instead?
Or as an option for Default Channel Group in the Misc1 or Misc2 settings?

[mvallevand]

tl;dr install .Net 4.6 as it It works fine in Vista. You might need to do it manually.

Martin

[sub]

1st picture during installation of NPVR.

Did you install .NET 4.6? You need to.

Tested Multiple Instances Live Tuner Functionality.

1st Instance of NPVR - Live Tuner works
2nd Instance of NVPR - Live Tuner stays on Black screen - have to End program in Task Manager to get out

So the Multiple Instance is only good for 1 Live Tuner and the 2nd Instance for accessing the TV Guide to Program more recordings only.

I really don't think this will be anything to do with the fact you're running on Vista. If you post logs showing the attempt, I'm happy to check it out.

Now if you're recording a program and you want to watch. Sometimes attempting to watch a live program within NPVR results in a Black screen issue where you will have to end the program in Task Manager. Sometimes it will work.
Is there a way to modify the PLAY - for a live recording to use a 3rd party program to load the video instead?
For example VLC has no issues playing back a video file being recorded and would be a better solution for playing live recordings since multiple instances of recordings works fine using VLC.

If it cannot reassign to use a 3rd party program to play the file can we add an option to disable the PLAY from showing up in the Menu?

Sometimes this can get hit by accident causing either a 3-5 second delay for the live tuner or a frozen black screen issue.

CLOSE
PLAY <--- remove/disable this or MISC option to use a 3rd party program such as VLC to redirect as the video player.
UPDATE
CANCEL

There is no reason you should have to use a 3rd party player. Like previous versions of NextPVR, you should be able to play stuff directly in NextPVR. There is no reason Vista should be a problem for this. Happy to look at logs to help you diagnose.

You could try ticking the 'use legacy NPVR TS Reader and Microsoft Demultiplexer' to see if it makes a difference.

Under Recording Settings Menu
Pre Padding Minutes
0-60

Post Padding Minutes
0-60

In an ongoing Manual Recording
Pre Padding Minutes
0-89

Post Padding Minutes
0-89


In which file are these four values stored?

Do you mean the default padding values? These can be edited on the Settings->Recordings screen

In the Channels (pinned) pop up window
It always defaults to
ALL Channels category

If you change it to ATSC channels group or a customized one it doesn't remember to use the same
Channel Group and reverts back to ATSC channels. Can this be made to remember last Channel Group instead?
Or as an option for Default Channel Group in the Misc1 or Misc2 settings?

That is correct - it doesn't currently remember the last channel group. I can look to add this for the next release though.

[DVRMultiStreamer]

Did you install .NET 4.6? You need to.

Microsoft .NET Framework 4.6.2 (Offline Installer) for Windows 7 SP1, Windows 8.1, Windows 10, Windows 10 November Update, Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1, Windows Server 2012 and Windows Server 2012 R2
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download...x?id=53344

No I didn't install it since MS.NET v4.6 didn't support Vista and only is for Windows 7 and later according to the system requirements of the website. If you're saying that MS.NET v4.6 works in Vista I'll go ahead and download the offline installer and make the attempt to see if it installs without issue despite not being officially supported by Microsoft.

I really don't think this will be anything to do with the fact you're running on Vista. If you post logs showing the attempt, I'm happy to check it out.

There is no reason you should have to use a 3rd party player. Like previous versions of NextPVR, you should be able to play stuff directly in NextPVR. There is no reason Vista should be a problem for this. Happy to look at logs to help you diagnose.

Sub I'll try to get you a clean log on a new Vista install on another system when I can. I'll have to move the Quad out and swap it with a 2250 dual instead and set up a new rig with the Quad tuner only and repeat the test. If on a clean Vista install the problem persists I will upload the logs from that for you to analyze what may be causing this.

You could try ticking the 'use legacy NPVR TS Reader and Microsoft Demultiplexer' to see if it makes a difference.

I'll look into fiddling with this if it changes anything and let you know.


[The current setup]
Video Renderer is: EVR
Audio Renderer is: Default
Music Renderer is: Default


Video Decoder:
MPEG2: MS MPEG 2
H.264: LAV
HEVC: Disabled


Audio Decoder:
MPEG1: MPEG Audio Decoder
AC3: LAV
E-AC3: LAV
AAC: LAV
HE-AAC: Disabled

X - Only use mapped audio decoders during .ts playback

Do you mean the default padding values? These can be edited on the Settings->Recordings screen

Yes. I wanted to know how to edit them to change the max value range to 526022 instead of capped at 60. Is there a NextPVR file the actual value is saved in that can be hexedited perhaps if there's no other way to do it?

The Settings->Recordings screen limits it to 60 Minutes or 1 hour max. There a quite a few shows that extend several hours or in certain cases goes overtime and if the max is 60 minutes it will usually get cut off prematurely. This happens on shows are recorded using the TV Guide menu.

Usually in the typical scenario say 8PM start
Auto End time default is 830PM. Now if I use padding I can increase it to 89 mins which actually puts it at
959PM just short of 10PM. But to ensure it properly records the entire show using a TV Guide method the Post Padding should not be restricted to 89 minutes even 1500 mins would allow 24 hours Post Padding in case you don't exactly when the show will end in case of a marathon or the max value I was thinking of was
526022 or if you want it even round it to 600,000 for aesthetics.


Now if the Manual Recording can be added to the TV Guide Drop down option as shown:

If I selected a TV Guide box located at 3PM, the Recording Options will show

CLOSE
PLAY
UPDATE
MANUAL <--- Add MANUAL RECORDING option here
CANCEL

Then the Manual Recording time will be synced to the TV Guide box you selected as the Start Time.

Often times doing a Manual Recording the Start Time starts from the Current Time.
The End Time also starts from the Current Time. I think this should be altered to the End Time begins one hour past the Current Start Time.

Example if it is 1201AM Midnight and I wish to
record a program starting at 3PM on the same day,
The Manual Recording time starts at 1201AM and let's say I advanced the Start Time to 3PM
The End Time shows 1201AM so I have to advance it all the way to 3PM.

What NextPVR should do is advance the End Time automatically 1 hour past once the Start Time is set.


Then end result it would looks like this:

Start Time
300 PM

End Time
400 PM <--- Automatically advances 1 hour past the Start Time once configured

End Date
(Today) <--- Default, Tomorrow, Future Date (Use Left or Right Arrow Key to change from Today to a Future Date)

------------------------------------------------
Rather than what it is now using the current time.
------------------------------------------------

Start Time
300 PM

End Time
1201 AM <--- Based off of current time

(End Date - Setting not available yet) - MISSING


A 1 hour End Time past the Start Time would be a good starting point instead of half an hour which already is done by default using Quick Record instead of scrolling through from 1201AM all the way to 4PM.

Another option is allow manual time entry by hitting the enter key over the Start or End Time and input it with the keyboard.

For example the keystrokes would be:

Hit ENTER, on Start Time
Type 3,
then P

Hit ENTER or Down Arrow Key, on End Time
Type 4,
then P

Hit ENTER or Down Arrow Key, on End Date
Today, Tomorrow, Future Date (Use Left or Right Arrow Key to change the End Date)

Hit ENTER or Down Arrow Key
Scroll down to OK
Hit ENTER to save programmed recording time.

That is correct - it doesn't currently remember the last channel group. I can look to add this for the next release though.

That would be a valued feature and a normally existing feature found in most applications. I figured someone may have suggested it before or there was a way to do this I was unaware of. Apparently I discovered a missing feature needed which will be welcome.



I have WinTV installed on the same system. I was curious can NextPVR use the same encoders that WinTV uses? And if so how do I select them as they don't show up in NextPVR.

One thing I've noticed about NextPVR recording is when enabling Closed Caption in VLC the video is more sluggish than recordings done in WinTV.

Any ideas as to why this is?

[mvallevand]

Since I use Vista I am pretty sure it works https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download...x?id=48130. Microsoft doesn't really support Vista anymore but the page shows Vista as an option.

Martin

[DVRMultiStreamer]

Since I use Vista I am pretty sure it works https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/download...x?id=48130. Microsoft doesn't really support Vista anymore but the page shows Vista as an option.

Martin

Martin, I've been downloading and archiving every MS.NET for the past few hours.

3.0 -> 4.7 just in case MS deletes the link which they often do.

It turns out 4.6.1 is the actual cut off when W7 SP1 is required.

MS.NET v4.6.0 is the "FINAL" Vista compatible version.

The google link search prioritized 4.6.2 which showed W7 SP1 and later as a requirement and you have to really dig around to locate the 4.6.0 as it is hidden.

I did more digging to find the Offline stand alone version Full for download here. The Web Installer version is only useful if the MS server stays online to send you the file which one day will go offline. The Offline standalone can be archived and reinstalled on as many machines needed.



Microsoft .NET Framework 4.6 (Offline Installer)

[Supported Operating System]
Windows Vista SP2 (x86 and x64)
Windows 7 SP1 (x86 and x64)
Windows 8 (x86 and x64)
Windows 8.1 (x86 and x64)
Windows Server 2008 SP2 (x86 and x64)
Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1 (x64)
Windows Server 2012 (x64)
Windows Server 2012 R2 (x64)



https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download...x?id=48137

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download...x?id=48137

[Direct Dowload Link]
https://download.microsoft.com/download/...OS-ENU.exe


I think NextPVR v4.0.5 might be using MS.NET v4.0.0. This is the Final NextPVR version that works before needing to update MS.NET further to this supposed MS.NET v4.6.0.

I might do some testing of MS.NET v4.5.1 and v4.5.2 to see if these also work with the newer NextPVR versions v4.1, v4.2, and v4.2.2. I couldn't locate MS.NET v4.5.0 off the MS website so I'm not sure if they took it down.

[ElihuRozen]

You can enter the start and end times directly for a manual recording using your keyboard and 2400 time format. For your example, if you typed 1500<ENTER> for the start time, it would display 3 PM. Then, go to the end time and type 1600<ENTER> and it will display 4 PM.

[sub]

No I didn't install it since MS.NET v4.6 didn't support Vista and only is for Windows 7 and later according to the system requirements of the website. If you're saying that MS.NET v4.6 works in Vista I'll go ahead and download the offline installer and make the attempt to see if it installs without issue despite not being officially supported by Microsoft.

Yes, 4.6.0 is the last version version that supports Vista.

You can download it from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download...dd6d2=True

Now if the Manual Recording can be added to the TV Guide Drop down option as shown:

If I selected a TV Guide box located at 3PM, the Recording Options will show

CLOSE
PLAY
UPDATE
MANUAL <--- Add MANUAL RECORDING option here
CANCEL

Then the Manual Recording time will be synced to the TV Guide box you selected as the Start Time.

Sorry, I wont be doing this. It just makes things less tidy and will confuse some people.

A 1 hour End Time past the Start Time would be a good starting point instead of half an hour which already is done by default using Quick Record instead of scrolling through from 1201AM all the way to 4PM.

Another option is allow manual time entry by hitting the enter key over the Start or End Time and input it with the keyboard.

For example the keystrokes would be:

Hit ENTER, on Start Time
Type 3,
then P

Hit ENTER or Down Arrow Key, on End Time
Type 4,
then P

Hit ENTER or Down Arrow Key, on End Date
Today, Tomorrow, Future Date (Use Left or Right Arrow Key to change the End Date)

Hit ENTER or Down Arrow Key
Scroll down to OK
Hit ENTER to save programmed recording time.

As mentioned above, you can type a 4 digit start time. ie 1645 to start at 16:45 (4:45pm).

I have WinTV installed on the same system. I was curious can NextPVR use the same encoders that WinTV uses? And if so how do I select them as they don't show up in NextPVR.

Decoders - yes, it'll list the WinTV decoders on the Settings->Decoders screen. WinTV's old Mainconcept MPEG2 decoder is pretty crappy though, and known to cause crashes, so I don't advise you use that one.

One thing I've noticed about NextPVR recording is when enabling Closed Caption in VLC the video is more sluggish than recordings done in WinTV.

This is your imagination. The both just capture an exact digital copy of the broadcast to .ts files. You're probably just noticing slight differences between different channels. (FYI, I was also the author of WinTV 7/8 back when I used to work at Hauppauge)

[sub]

I think NextPVR v4.0.5 might be using MS.NET v4.0.0. This is the Final NextPVR version that works before needing to update MS.NET further to this supposed MS.NET v4.6.0.

I might do some testing of MS.NET v4.5.1 and v4.5.2 to see if these also work with the newer NextPVR versions v4.1, v4.2, and v4.2.2. I couldn't locate MS.NET v4.5.0 off the MS website so I'm not sure if they took it down.

It targets .NET 4.6, so don't worry about these other versions - just install .NET 4.6.0