NextPVR 2.03 vs. GB-PVR 1.4.7; very long paths in GB-PVR

[sub]

I must be a timeout issue plus misleading advice.
Please consider that I'm not an English speaker. It took me quite a long time to write the articles above. You are certainly a lot faster!
Still: When the software says, after a timeout: "go back and reload", it should behave nicely... I also experienced the case where I went back, reloaded, tried to re-submit, logged in again and than, at the next try, got an error message like "you are logged in twice"...

Sorry, I'm not sure what would cause that. I'm no expert in the vbulletin forum software.

You are right about the path problem!
When the path became awfully long, all was in the title tag of the xmltv source.
In the meantime the xmltv grabber stopped to work because of a change on the page it grabbed from, then it was rewrittten, and now it outputs the show data with title and sub-title contents separately.
Because I did not think of this change I assumed GB would combine the two fields. And because I archived the xmltv files I could check the former format.
So I can use normal recording immediately! The recurring shows won't be distingishable by name but it is still better than having to use manual recording.

Great - glad you have a fix. NPVR would have created the same log paths with these xmltv files combining the title and subtitle into the xmltv <title> field. Really you need your xmltv grabber to generate separate fields, or the app just thinks this combined <title> is the title.

[sub]

Channel switching, from Ch 1 to 2, key presses:
GB: Up
Next: Up, Up, Enter

You're trying to use the wrong keys to change channels. The Up/Down arrows keys will show the mini-guide, so you can browse through the list of what is showing on other channels. Instead you should be using either the PageUp/PageDown keys, or the +/- keys on the numeric keypad. These directly change channels.

Full screen/max. window - scaled window changes:
GB: no real full screen, just maximized window. Going back with mouse, previous position and size of window get restored reliably. Some times mouse cursor disappears.
Next: real full screen without window frame. It took me very long until I found out that one can go back with Alt-Enter. Previous position and size of window do not get restored reliably! (if you changed the window before going to full screen)

GB-PVR and NPVR both used Alt-Enter to toggle between window and fullscreen. NPVR also allows you to switch into fullscreen when clicking the window frame Maximize button, which makes much more sense than the old maximized window frame in GBPVR. Window size is reliably restored for me. I think there is an issue if you close the app while in fullscreen mode - this on my list to check.

Both NPVR/GBPVR have cursor disappear after 10 seconds or so of inactivity. Moving the mouse causes it to reshow.

Fonts:
GB: Fonts in XP are superb on main screen, in 7 slightly truncated. Scaling of window in guide gives quite good fonts in every size.
Next: Fonts on main screen are ok, they have buffer space around them for different sizes. Scaling guide window often results in very ugly fonts! They look irregular. It looks like a misbehaving smoothing.

Both apps treat the fonts the same way, and should give identical results (with the same font). If you can post a couple of screenshots so I can see the difference, I'll take a look.

Missing visual feedback of current recording:
GB: The tray icon changes to green background.
Next: I did not recognize anything during recording.

True it doesnt change color when recording. It does alow you to click the icon to see what it is current up to. Its an easy change if people want this feature though.

Handling and presentation of manual recordings:
GB: Maybe this depends on the chosen skin. I like the vertical list of menu entries on the left side, with "Manuell" being on the same plane/level as "Fertig", "Neueste" and "Geplant".
Next: Possibly depending on skin also. I have no complete list of different recording categories or states at a glance. I have to switch through the list. And "Man-Rec" is on a different logical level.

The old style screens with buttons down the left and list on the right are are thing of the past, and are gone. Most people seemed to prefer having more screen real-estate available showing information, so thats what I've done. It gives much more space for displaying information in the video/music/picture library screens. Having the Recordings screen using old style list of buttons on the left, while TVGuide/Videos/Music/Pictures used the new layout would have been really inconsistent and made it look badly designed. Instead I wanted the Recording screen to follow the same layout as the other screens. I'm sure you'd get used to it very quickly.

Manual Recordings:
GB: The name of the channel is included in the name of the recording. Good!
Next: The name of the recording is just "Default". Bad. Inside Next I get the channel not until a second step. Outside I don't get it at all.

I dont really do manual recordings myself, but this is an easy change. No one else had mentioned it.

A lot of options that pop up only when mouse is over them:
I'm not shure how much GB and Next differ in this realm.
I was irritated because it took me quite a while to find "Man-Rec" at all.

I prefer to have the screens uncluttered, so I dont show these rarely used on the screen all the time. Very few people use manual recordings. The functions are still there and available though, and you can get to them from mouse or keyboard/remote.

But, playing a recording:
GB: I can jump reliably to a position in the recording with a mouse click. And I get a navigation bar.
Next: I can't jump reliably with the mouse, or at least the visual feedback with the green bar lags a lot behind. I don't see any navigation bar.

I dont really see any difference between the two apps when playing recordings (or other video files). They both show a timeline, and you click on them to skip to different part of the file. Both seem to skip as quickly and and update the OSD in as quickly. What specifically is happening with NPVR that makes you dislike it for this?

All these are pretty minor though, so I'm sure you're like NPVR with a small minor tweaks, and giving yourself a chance to get used to it.

[mvallevand]

The solution for Nistrod's sample is simple, post-processing of analog hardware SD captures to mpg via ffmpeg is trivial and reliable, but at the same time for NPVR use it is totally unnecessary.

Someone sent a PM taking exception to this so I thought I'd clarify this statement is based on high quality SD recordings like Nistrod's sample or of course analog SD captures, which will almost always be good. If the stream is bad it wouldn't matter if GBPVR was muxing on the fly or not they will have bad timelines. The bottom line is it is best to use NPVR since it has internal logic that deals with bad timelines.

Martin

[next]

Both apps treat the fonts the same way, and should give identical results (with the same font). If you can post a couple of screenshots so I can see the difference, I'll take a look.

I just use predefined settings for fonts. So I don't know if Next and GB use the same.
But it's a good idea to let you show some pictures!
During the preparation I found that fonts in GB aren't always as good as I thought if you take a very close look. But still the screens in GB always give me a good overall impression of the text - in contrast to Next.

After some time:
Ah, nerv! :mad::mad:

I carefully prepared 14 pictures - and now the board let's me attach 5 only (in one step), Telling me: "Current Attachment Total: 268.7 KB" - which is nothing, isn't it?

... ok, ok, I'l put them in a Zip archive.

After some time:
Mama mia! This also didn't work! :mad::mad::mad;
" * Bildschirmfotos-110306.zip - Your file of 5.74 MB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 2.29 MB for this filetype."

After some time...
Finally it worked.

Trying to preview - NO, IT DID NOT WORK!!!! After involved splitting into 5 segments!

"Errors
The following errors occurred with your submission

* You have included a total of 5 images and/or videos in your message. The maximum number that you may include is 4. Please correct the problem and then continue again.

Images include use of smilies, the BB code [img] tag, and HTML <img> tags. Videos are included with the BB code [video] tag. The use of these is all subject to them being enabled by the administrator."

So even all my angry smilies are not allowed. What the...
:mad;:mad;:mad;:mad;:mad;

:mad;:mad;:mad;:mad;:mad;
:mad;:mad;:mad;:mad;:mad;
...

What I hate most on all bulletin boards is the censorhip.
And this "education" is nearly the same.

[next]

After the first try:
"The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 2 characters."

[Reddwarf]

Can you please stop calling it Next, the name is npvr, NOT next.

[mvallevand]

Jaggy has reported several times that fonts in 640x576 (PAL) mode look and appear quite differently on a 4x3 monitor. If your video card can handle it set the UI Resolution for 800x600 I think it looks best for PAL and NTSC monitors.

Martin

[sub]

What resolution are you running?

No matter what you do, the text in both NPVR and GBPVR look pretty crappy at low resolutions like 720x576 or 720x480. With these there just isnt enough DPI for Windows to produce sharp anti-aliased text. I'm sure you probably know that though, because one of your pictures shows the menu in fullscreen mode, with a decent resolution, and the text looks pretty good.

Another thing worth noting, is both NPVR and GBPVR were designed for fullscreen usage, so they render everything to look best at the fullscreen resolution. When you run in Window, DirectX has to shrink the picture down, and you lose some quality.

Regarding getting annoyed about the limits on attachment sizes, and forcing people to zip their attachments - I have to do this to keep the backups manageable. This is not a commercial project, and the donations dont even cover the costs of web hosting and backup service. Just get over it. It's not worth getting upset over.

[next]

You're trying to use the wrong keys to change channels. The Up/Down arrows keys will show the mini-guide, so you can browse through the list of what is showing on other channels. Instead you should be using either the PageUp/PageDown keys, or the +/- keys on the numeric keypad. These directly change channels.

*smile* Ok, I'm learning...
It's not a big thing, while I still prefer Up und Down keys for channel switching.

GB-PVR and NPVR both used Alt-Enter to toggle between window and fullscreen. NPVR also allows you to switch into fullscreen when clicking the window frame Maximize button, which makes much more sense than the old maximized window frame in GBPVR. Window size is reliably restored for me. I think there is an issue if you close the app while in fullscreen mode - this on my list to check.

In GB I don't get fullcreen toggle with Alt-Enter.
In GB I don't know how to do real fullscreen at all, I know how to maximize the window only. And there is a small issue where going to scaled window sometimes maximizes it more then fullscreen, resulting in a slightly truncated title frame (please don't bother).

Both NPVR/GBPVR have cursor disappear after 10 seconds or so of inactivity. Moving the mouse causes it to reshow.

I'm not talking of disappearence after 10 seconds but irregular disappearence, probably depending on cursor position, after half a second.

Both apps treat the fonts the same way, and should give identical results (with the same font). If you can post a couple of screenshots so I can see the difference, I'll take a look.

Thank you. I upload some screens.

True it doesnt change color when recording. It does alow you to click the icon to see what it is current up to. Its an easy change if people want this feature though.

To me it is absolutely important to have this feedback "along the way", expressely without having to click somewhere to get the information.

The old style screens with buttons down the left and list on the right are are thing of the past, and are gone. Most people seemed to prefer having more screen real-estate available showing information, so thats what I've done. It gives much more space for displaying information in the video/music/picture library screens. Having the Recordings screen using old style list of buttons on the left, while TVGuide/Videos/Music/Pictures used the new layout would have been really inconsistent and made it look badly designed. Instead I wanted the Recording screen to follow the same layout as the other screens. I'm sure you'd get used to it very quickly.

I agree, there are also advantages of the new style over the old one.

I dont really do manual recordings myself, but this is an easy change. No one else had mentioned it.

I assume everybody who does manual recording likes some hint included in the name. So probably nearly nobody uses manual recording. Anyhow, to me it would be helpful.

I prefer to have the screens uncluttered, so I dont show these rarely used on the screen all the time. Very few people use manual recordings. The functions are still there and available though, and you can get to them from mouse or keyboard/remote.

It's a matter of taste. You would call it "uncluttered", to me it would be "more information at a glance". Anyhow, I've learned to handle this change now.

I dont really see any difference between the two apps when playing recordings (or other video files). They both show a timeline, and you click on them to skip to different part of the file. Both seem to skip as quickly and and update the OSD in as quickly. What specifically is happening with NPVR that makes you dislike it for this?

In GB I click into the time line and get a reaction after 1/3 of a second for the view and the bar as well. And I have the navigation bar for jumping in 10' gaps and to the beginning and the end, also for pausing with the mouse.
In Next clicking into the time line lets the view change to the new position as fast as in GB, but updating the bar takes about a full second. And I don't see any navigation bar.
In both apps I don't know how to navigate with the keyboard. I would expect <Space> at least to pause and continue, but even that I can't do.

All these are pretty minor though, so I'm sure you're like NPVR with a small minor tweaks, and giving yourself a chance to get used to it.

I agree: A lot of problems vanish after some learning.

[next]

Someone sent a PM taking exception to this so I thought I'd clarify this statement is based on high quality SD recordings like Nistrod's sample or of course analog SD captures, which will almost always be good. If the stream is bad it wouldn't matter if GBPVR was muxing on the fly or not they will have bad timelines. The bottom line is it is best to use NPVR since it has internal logic that deals with bad timelines.

While I agree that the problem is due to a weakness of VLC media player it is no option (for me) to remux every .ts recording - especially as long as I can circumvent the problem by staying with GB and .mpg recordings more or less satisfyingly.

Please don't try to convince anybody what viewer he should use.
I e.g. need acceleration and slowdown and even stepping through an episode frame by frame. With the internal viewer you are completely lost with such things.
And what about looking at two films or two positions of one film at the same time?