WinTV versus GBPVR live TV quality

[Pob]

I got a new LCD - 32" - and I am using 1:1 pixel mapping at 1360*768
(Lovely for use as PC monitor)
However I now notice a slight difference between picture produced by these two pieces of software. It is slight but most noticeable during movement - GBPVR seems to produce a darker or higher contrast image, and blocky pixelation is more apparent.
So then I got wondering why they are different and read through all the threads here - I changed my cyberlink mux to 1307 and replaced quartz.dll but did not seem to make any difference.
How can I work out exactly which mux, decoder, and renderer WinTV uses? I think if they use the same, the picture should be identical?
I did find a different cyberlink mux in my system32 folder that seems to have been installed at the time I got my Hauppage card - 50 1727 - but it is not detected by gbpvr muxcheker so I assume it is not registered and therefore wintv does not use this version?
Anyway I uploaded some screen captures:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi...gbpvr2.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi...WINTV2.jpg
(The difference is more noticeable on moving video)
Any advice appreciated.
Pob

[pBS]

i'mpretty sure wintv uses overlay....which isn't available in ppvrx2.exe but still is for a limited time with gbpvr.exe tho...when setting renderer in config, if you select overlay, the movement should be smooth and sharper...
now sometimes this sharpness reveals the compression artifacts more, but actually it is a 'true'er picture..[more like what you'd see playing same file from dvd player]

almost every video card can do overlay quite well...vmr not so much...
vmr7 looks great as an compromise...[usually smooth as overlay, but with vmr picture smoothing filters]

also try another decoder, as sometime they mess up the deinterlacing...try Dscaler decoder..

[Pob]

i'mpretty sure wintv uses overlay....which isn't available in ppvrx2.exe but still is for a limited time with gbpvr.exe tho...when setting renderer in config, if you select overlay, the movement should be smooth and sharper...
now sometimes this sharpness reveals the compression artifacts more, but actually it is a 'true'er picture..[more like what you'd see playing same file from dvd player]

almost every video card can do overlay quite well...vmr not so much...
vmr7 looks great as an compromise...[usually smooth as overlay, but with vmr picture smoothing filters]

also try another decoder, as sometime they mess up the deinterlacing...try Dscaler decoder..

WinTV has a applet called Primary for setting the renderer - mine is set to 'Allow VMR' (Implies allow overlay) and VMR type is set to 'Either' (VMR7 or VMR9)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi...rimary.jpg
If I force it to use VMR7 then my CPU overhead goes up - so I am guessing it is using VMR9, the same as gbpvr.
So don't think it is the renderer. The decoder I am using in gbpvr is the Inervideo Non-CSS video decoder for Hauppage cards. - I assume this is what WinTV uses also as it's installed with the Hauppage software.
So only other thing I can think of is the cyberlink demuxer (I am not sure that is even used for live TV!), or that WinTV does some kind of further processing of the image -
Actually come to think of it the video renderer and decoder are options on the playback page of config - so perhaps these are only used to play back recordings and not for live TV at all?
Pob

[HtV]

What tv-card are you using? You might be able to increase the livetv-quality in gbpvr-config-capturesources-....

[Pob]

What tv-card are you using? You might be able to increase the livetv-quality in gbpvr-config-capturesources-....

It's a Nova T 9002 DVB-T card.
Something I noticed is that the full-screen picture on gbpvr seems to be overscanning slightly - if you compare the two sceenshots I posted earlier you can see that the ticker-tape bar at the bottom of BBC news 24 is thinner on the gbpvr screenshot. If the picture is being enlarged more in gbpvr than in WinTV that alone could account for the slight difference in quality I am seeing. So maybe it's a ratio issue - WinTV is exactly 1360*768 but gbpvr is not? Is there a way to set the exact full screen window size in gbpvr?
Pob
P.S Recordings look a lot better for some reason!
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi...RIPLEY.jpg

[sub]

It's a Nova T 9002 DVB-T card.
Something I noticed is that the full-screen picture on gbpvr seems to be overscanning slightly - if you compare the two sceenshots I posted earlier you can see that the ticker-tape bar at the bottom of BBC news 24 is thinner on the gbpvr screenshot. If the picture is being enlarged more in gbpvr than in WinTV that alone could account for the slight difference in quality I am seeing. So maybe it's a ratio issue - WinTV is exactly 1360*768 but gbpvr is not? Is there a way to set the exact full screen window size in gbpvr?
Pob
P.S Recordings look a lot better for some reason!
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi...RIPLEY.jpg

Set the following in config.xml:

<HorizontalZoom>1.00</HorizontalZoom>
<VerticalZoom>1.00</VerticalZoom>

By default there is a small amount of horizontal and vertical zoom applied to remove some wobbly edges you tend to get with analog systems:

[Pob]

Set the following in config.xml:

<HorizontalZoom>1.00</HorizontalZoom>
<VerticalZoom>1.00</VerticalZoom>

By default there is a small amount of horizontal and vertical zoom applied to remove some wobbly edges you tend to get with analog systems:

Thank you sub. By trial and error I found that to make gbpvr identical in the horizontal and vertical to WinTV, I had to use the following:
[COLOR="Blue"]<HorizontalZoom>1.03</HorizontalZoom>
<VerticalZoom>1</VerticalZoom>[/COLOR]
However the picture still appears different!
I took another couple of screen captures:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi.../wintv.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/graham_s/pi...103h1v.jpg
Now don't get me wrong - I don't like WinTV at all - I have been using gbpvr for everything - but for some reason, to my eyes, WinTV does seem to have a slightly better DVB-T picture...
Pob

[sub]

It'll most likely just come down to the choice of video decoders you're using, or the deinterlacing method being used. I didnt want to wade into this side of your post because there is a million threads already discussing decoder/renders/etc.

[stustunz]

i just looked at the pictures the gbpvr one stronger colours and fits the whole picture on the screen so why do you think the other loooks better
my guess is its cause pvrx2 is using direct3d (vmr custom) and the other only uses vmr or overlay
just adjust the deocder saturation contrast etc and you can make look washed out just like the other one
plus i would say their software must have some smoothing going on (or as said previous could be using overlay)

[Pob]

i just looked at the pictures the gbpvr one stronger colours and fits the whole picture on the screen so why do you think the other loooks better
my guess is its cause pvrx2 is using direct3d (vmr custom) and the other only uses vmr or overlay
just adjust the deocder saturation contrast etc and you can make look washed out just like the other one
plus i would say their software must have some smoothing going on (or as said previous could be using overlay)

I was more curious as to why they look different - you are right the WinTV picture looks more washed-out, but pixelation is less noticeable.
I can confirm that both gbpvr and wintv are using VMR9 (still on 99.12 here)
By analysing the loaded modules in System Information I can also confirm that both gbpvr and wintv are using the Intervideo Non-css video and audio decoders - there is no way to alter the decoder saturation or contast etc that I can find.
The cyberlink mpgmux.ax is only used when playing back recordings.
The only live TV difference I can see is that they are using different parsers - gbpvr is using PsiParser version 0.1 dated 30/1/07
WinTV uses HCWPsiParser v2,16,25102,0 dated 15/6/07
I don't even know what a parser is! Could this be the reason for the difference?
Also I noticed that when WinTV-live TV is active there are a couple of Microsoft files in use, that are not when gbpvr-live TV is running:
PsisDecd.dll & PsisRndr.ax - maybe these account for the difference? Anyway I was just curious as to why they look different.
Pob