Upgrading for HDTV

[menzies]

Hi, I've been a fan and loyal user of GBPVR for about three years now, using a spare computer I had lying around. I have just purchased a new HDTV, and am thinking about options to upgrade my GBPVR system to record and watch OTA HDTV programs.

My budget is definitely tight, so I'm seeking advice on how I should go about upgrading; is my current system too old to be worth upgrading? What components would I need to bring my system up to speed?

My current setup:
Intel Celeron 2.6GHz (Northwood)
784MB DDR1 SDRAM
320GB HDD
PCI Slot 1: Radeon VE (Radeon 7000)
PCI Slot 2: Hauppauge PVR-350
No PCI-e, AGP, or other free PCI slots
Built from an Asus barebones Pundit AB-P2600.

I'm running GBPVR ver. 0.99.12, and have yet to upgrade to a newer version because 1) I've had no problems with this version, and 2) I'm using the PVR-350 TV-out, and since it's not officially supported, I didn't want to mess up a perfectly good PVR. I use the PVR-350 TV-out because it gives a better picture than I can get using software encoding and my Radeon.

Since I only have 2 PCI slots and no other slots in my system, I'm thinking of doing the following:
- Purchase an HVR-1600, to provide one digital and one analog tuner. This will go into the PCI slot currently occupied by the PVR-350.
- Purchase a new video card that can output to my TV in HD, to replace my old Radeon VE in PCI slot 2.

Now for the questions...
1) How much video card do I need? On the low end, I was looking at a 128MB GeForce FX5200 card (~$30), and on the high end I was looking at a Powercolor 24Pro256M (Radeon HD2400PRO) card, which goes for about $70. I don't play games on this computer; I just watch TV via GBPVR and online streaming.
2) Assuming a get a decent card, are the other components of this old computer up to snuff? Is a 2.6GHz Celeron (Northwood NetBurst architecture) and 784MB enough?
3) One reason I like the Powercolor card is that it is HDCP-ready, so that if I did ever want to buy a Blu-Ray drive, I could. Would my system be able to handle Blu-Ray? And do they even make IDE Blu-Ray drives (I have no free PCI slots to add a SATA controller)?

Any advice is appreciated! And thanks, sub, for GBPVR!

[gazoo]

You definitely need to upgrade everything for HDTV. I would go with an ATI card and an ATI x2 processor (because the x2 works and it's cheap, not really because of preference.) You could try the new 780g mobo with integrated video and optical/spdif sound, but there are some driver issues lately. Normally, the good video card can do hardware acceleration, but I wouldn't rely on that completely and just get a good dual core processor. There are new formats coming out all the time and they may not always support HA.

With case, mobo, HD, memory, p/s, etc. you're looking at about $300-$450. If you already have a HD, case, p/s, you could knock some out of that. With a blu ray drive, that's even more $$. I think the cheapest one I've seen right now is about $135 or so (read only).

Edit- Just as an FYI- I have an old P4 (not hyperthread) 1.8GHz as my server and I can BARELY watch 1080i US HDTV. No way I can do H.264, just not enough horsepower. I'm in the process of building a new server. I just did a client, look at my signature..

[stustunz]

nvidia 8500 or 8600 is still the best card out for all round video playback (bang for buck)
ati2400 cards dont do mpeg2 aswell and they run to hot
if you are going to go ati dont get the 2400

[menzies]

Edit- Just as an FYI- I have an old P4 (not hyperthread) 1.8GHz as my server and I can BARELY watch 1080i US HDTV. No way I can do H.264, just not enough horsepower. I'm in the process of building a new server. I just did a client, look at my signature..

Thanks for the tips. When you say "server," do you mean you have a server client setup? May I ask what video card you are using to view the HDTV? That is, how do you know that your CPU is the bottleneck?

My thinking is that my CPU would only need an upgrade if I put in an underpowered video card. Does the video card take the load off of the CPU? I'm not too familiar with the underworkings of GBPVR, so I'm not sure how to tell where the bottleneck is.

Edit: I see your server/client specs in your signature and your client seems well-powered to output in HD...Are you using wireless networking, or ethernet? Also, my TV is 720p, does that make a difference?

[stustunz]

you will pay double the price for a agp card for the same card in pcie
honestly dont waste any money on what you have

you just payed for a nice new tv why cut yourself short sending it a signal from second rate pc

i just upgraded to a dual core pc and the difference is night and day
everything is better
sound
cooler
quieter
faster
smoother

if you cant afford it right now then wait till you can

[zed]

Get one or two 1600 cards for HD capture and a Popcorn Hour. Use your computer as a server and connect the PCH to the TV. Cost effective and probably a lot less hassle in the long run.

[rob11252]

Yes, your computer (with Hauppauge 1600) is good enough for recording but not for watching. The reason is that 1600 converts analog signal into mpg file internally (with very little help from the cpu) and ATSC signal is already digital, so it goes directly to hard drive (I am simplifying but not much).
About watching: I found that fast processor is more important than video card because you are never sure if you would be able to use video acceleration, so having fast processor is a safe fallback. For example MS came up with the EVR renderer for Vista. You can use it with winxp and a lot of people like the quality it provides but then video card acceleration wouldn't work.

Check this site, see yourself what your computer is capable of:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows...wcase.aspx

[wtg]

Get one or two 1600 cards for HD capture and a Popcorn Hour. Use your computer as a server and connect the PCH to the TV. Cost effective and probably a lot less hassle in the long run.

Let me second Zed's recommendation. With lots of tinkering, even more frustration and a good bit of luck, you might be able to get decent HD playback with just the right video card and decoder, but then again you might not either. It's a real crap shoot and a whole lot of work... just look at all posts about it.

The PCH is less than $200 bucks and gives outstanding HD playback with dedicated hardware. It puts zero load on your machine, and even supports H.264 and other high compression HD formats that your low-end machine (and many higher-end machines) can never play. It's quite slick.

It isn't perfect since it's a work in progress, but it's remarkable how fast gbpvr support was ported to it. No comskip yet and some of the controls are slightly different. However, it works so well that even if the work sub and Martin have done to support it stopped today, I'd still be happy I bought it.

[gazoo]

Yes, it's a server/client setup. I use onboard video which is really an ATI HD3200. Since this board just came out, it has had some serious driver issues - at least on XP. I got it to work using software decode only in GB-PVR. Using some beta drivers outside of GB-PVR, HA was working. Without HA (software only) using an AMD 64 X2 3800+ I am getting ~40% of both cores combined to play 1080i MPEG2, ~55%-65% for H.264 720p, and ~80%-85% 1080p H.264. When I get the ATI card to do it's job with some leaked beta drivers AND outside of GB-PVR, it's like 5% for all supported MPEG2 and H.264. Supported meaning, there are several ways to encode that don't support the hardware decoder in these HA cards. Blu ray I believe is VC-1 or H.264 which these cards are meant to support.

Regarding the client, the PCH will get you by without spending like $400 on client (only $200). However, next year or the year after if a new format comes out that you want to watch, the PCH may not be able to handle as most of its decode is hardwired in. A PC, will be able to adapt no problem - the only caveat being you need to have the CPU horsepower already available or upgrade to a beefier processor if that is possible. Can you guess which way I lean on that subject?

[wtg]

Regarding the client, the PCH will get you by without spending like $400 on client (only $200). However, next year or the year after if a new format comes out that you want to watch, the PCH may not be able to handle as most of its decode is hardwired in. A PC, will be able to adapt no problem - the only caveat being you need to have the CPU horsepower already available or upgrade to a beefier processor if that is possible. Can you guess which way I lean on that subject?

menzies focus for this machine is a DVR and wants to playback his HD recordings. The format those recordings are going to be in are supported by the PCH, and it natively supports the newer divx, mpeg4 and H.264 encoding formats of other recorders on the market. It's highly unlikely there'll be another recordable format anytime in the near future, and certainly not from a new HD recorder card he'll buy today.

And while menzies didn't say he was looking for a machine that could playback non-recordable video format one might find on the net, the PCH is adept there too. The PCH's firmware is upgradable to support new formats. Should some new ultra-cool wizzbang recording format come out next year or the year after that it for some reason couldn't support decoding, any video card you bought today won't be able to support hardware acceleration either. The machine would have to rely on CPU alone, and considering the hurt 1080p H.264 can put on a CPU, it's going to have to be a heck of a CPU to deal with decoding some new hypothetical higher compression format.

A higher-end CPU and video card definitely has merit in an HTPC, but for the budget menzies seems to have available for upgrading this machine for HD playback, I think a $179 PCH should definitely be on the short list. As cheap or cheaper than many video cards and a whole lot of bang for the buck.