V6 Live TV issue using HDHomeRun tuners

[wwhenderson]

Situation:
- Migrated TV viewing from NextPVR V4 on Win10 Pro X64 to NextPVR V6 on Win11 Pro X64.
- While using NextPVR V6 to watch Live TV from the '...\NextPVR\client\NextPVR.exe' (client) Guide (not from web interface):
  - Channel 24 (WZRA-CA) MPEG2/AC3 audio/video views successfully
  - Channel 50 (USA Network) MPEG2/AC3 received '...please wait...' message forever
- NextPVR version 4.2.5.191014 plays all 216 Live TV channels successfully.
- NextPVR version 6.1.5 (231022) channels 2-24 can be played via Guide or Live TV, but channels above channel 24 will not play.
- The HDHomeRun client will 'play' all 216 channels.
- It would appear that NextPVR scheduled DVR recordings are successful and recorded programs are played without issue.
- Only Live TV with V6 appears to have the issue.
- A V6 log is attached.
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Configuration:
- The following Windows environment variable is set:
  VERBOSE_LOGGING=true
- NextPVR config.xml logging set to <LogLevel>DEBUG</LogLevel>.
- .NET V6.0.28 installed.
- Windows MPEG2 codec from the MS Store was installed before the LAV codecs.
- LAV V.78 x86 and x64 audio and video codecs installed. Default options used. Tried with x64 codecs enabled/disabled, no difference.
- All NextPVR decoders set to LAV.
- FFMPEG is not installed.
- VLC is not installed.
- TV devices are 2 HDHomeRun Prime units RG58 cable connected with 3 tuners a-piece with M-Card CableCards paired with Frontier TV provider via 1GB fibre ONT. No premium TV channels subscribed. It is not known whether any of the channels are encrypted, but it assumed that whatever encryption is used by the TV provider is removed by the HomeRun devices, since NextPVR V4 and V6 appear to work the same for the channels that can be viewed without issue.
- HDHomeRun firmware is up to date.
- HDHomeRun tuners scanned 216 channels. Rescanning channels does not change the circumstance.
- NextPVR EPG channels (216) configured with Schedules Direct.
- NextPVR V4 and V6 are installed on 2 different Win11 Pro X64 V23H2 VMware Guest VM 4GB 2CPU instances. Basically clones except for NextPVR versions. This issue was initially discovered on a separate Win11 Pro X64 Intel I5-6500 3.1GHz 8GB PC and that PC is still in daily use with the same issue. My workaround is to watch 'recorded TV' only. To test the NextPVR versions, a new Win11 Pro X64 PC was created with the above configuration and then cloned to 2 new VM Guest instances, one for each NextPVR version test. The VM guests behave identically to the 'daily use' NextPVR PC and only the test V4 plays all Live TV successfully as it on Win10 did before the migration.
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Help Needed:
NextPVR is one of the few programs that seem to have a great '10 foot' viewing experience similar to the old Windows Media Center. I have kludged a method for the MCE 'green button' to work with an IR6 Logitech Harmony remote to make NextPVR TV viewing easier my SO. I have fought this current issue for too long and I would prefer to not fit up another product for TV viewing. Perhaps I have missed a setting or a required program (ffmpeg ?) that is keeping this from working. I guess I could always go back to V4. I do not have a debug log for the V4 messages, since it works, but I can provide that as needed. I would need to discover how to collect the logs for that version if needed. Help is always appreciated. Hope the logs help.

[mvallevand]

You have two HDHR devices, one would be used for recordings and one for Live TV. Perhaps the signal is different. Disable 13249C5F 0,1 and 2 and see if Live TV quality changes. There is a config setting to have recordings and Live TV use the same order perhaps you have that with V4.

NextPVR includes ffmpeg for web transcoding it isn't needed for direct plays clients.

Martin

[wwhenderson]

Thank you for the quick response. As far as I know, one HDHomeRun device is not used for live TV and the other for recording. If so, that needs to change, a configuration item maybe? All 6 tuners should be available for both as they were with V4. I need additional assistance with whether NextPVR Live TV renderer is the issue. The HDHomeRun Prime QAM256 devices are not OTA devices. Both devices and any of the 6 tuners are used for recording and displaying Live TV. Their signal strength is not determined by an antenna. They get their decoded signal (MPEG2/AC3) from cablecards. The device tuner's signal strength is well within my experience of past signal strength testing. The signal strength detected is at 98-99% (-1.1 dBmv) and Signal Quality is at 100% (36.2 dB) at 5.32 Mbps. Signal strength with these devices can show as no video signal, pixelation, and video drop outs to the renderer. This V6 issue is whether the MPEG2/AC3 Live TV signal is rendered or not. The V4 testing and V6 testing use the same channels, but perhaps not the exact same tuner. The HDHomeRun app uses the same tuners and has no issue with rendering the tested channels no matter the tuner, but HDHomeRun Live TV does not use the same renderer as NextPVR V6 or V4. My NextPVR V4 and V6 testing are using the same tuners as the HDHomeRun app. My suspicion is the NextPVR Live TV V6 renderer is not behaving the same as the V4 Live TV renderer. NextPVR V6 will 'play' scheduled 'recorded' TV from the tested channels successfully. From what I understand, the NextPVR recorded TV capture is a straight copy of the input data from the tuners. Therefore, NextPVR V6 should render MPEG2\AC3 Live TV the same as recorded TV. It does not display Live TV for some channels, but V4 does display them successfully. All the HDHomeRun devices are on a 1 GIG-e network. There is no issue with network bandwidth, network performance, CPU usage, memory usage, or memory hard faults. The only thing I can point to is the difference between the V4 vs V6 NextPVR Live TV renderer. I can provide a short file of video 'recorded' from each channel, but NextPVR V6 will 'play' the recorded video successfully. Unfortunately, I have to schedule the recorded video, since NextPVR V6 OSD does not show the buttons while 'Please wait' is displayed. As mentioned I would like to keep NextPVR for the menu interface and the scheduled recordings and pre-recorded playback. Now if only Live TV would work. What am I missing? What can I capture to help better identify the cause or resolve Live TV?

[mvallevand]

NextPVR rules decide how decoders are used and which tuners is use and the second tuner was not working which is why I simply wanted to confirm that it wasn't tuner or source related. All the unnecessary education you provided makes it more confusing especially with not carriage returns)

The log didn't show video being decoded on USA. If there is a renderer issue it would be with LAV32 configuration it is hard to confirm that it is running does it open in the tray app when both the good and bad channels play?

Martin

[wwhenderson]

After disabling HDHomeRun device 2, there is better signal strength on device 1 tuner 3 and no issue when I force device 1 tuner 3 to be used for Live TV. I tested by removing all channels from all tuners except device 1 tuner 3. I need to troubleshoot this on my end. Sorry for the confusion. There is amazingly little difference -1.8 dBmv vs -2.3 dBmv between the signal strength of the tuners, but it is enough that the tuners apparently cannot decode QAM to MPEG2/AC3. It would be good for NextPVR to indicate in the logs when video drops, since that would have pointed me to the tuners earlier. Maybe I missed that in the logs. It is not apparent why NextPVR can record, but not play Live TV from the tuners due to low signal strength, but that is not an issue to fix now. Thanks for the help..

[mvallevand]

I've told you twice why recordings worked, they used the other better tuner.

The logs actually indicate you were getting video but not it was probably not constant enough to play it. It could be too many splits or misuse of an amplifier. You might have seen more information in the LAV tray app or on the weaker HDHR's web page.

Martin

[wwhenderson]

Long post for Windows 11, NextPVR V6, and Harmony IR6 remote users

Bottom line, I did not see in the logs which device was being chosen for the failing channels. What I had to go on was V4 worked and V6 didn't. Apparently V4 was choosing tuners tops down and V6 bottoms up. Thanks for the help.

For others that may setup NextPVR V6 with HDHomeRun Prime tuners on a Windows PC with an infrared remote, I offer the following history of how this issue was troubleshot and a Harmony IR remote was setup.

I do not know how helpful this post may be, but here goes.

Background:
- To help my Significant Other's TV use;
- My intent is to have a set top like experience to watch TV (Live and Recorded) and to record TV like a DVR using a Windows PC and an infrared remote while not having to deal with a keyboard and multiple device remotes to watch PC. In other words, keeping it simple.
- Windows Media Center Experience (MCE) at one time (Windows XP) provided a TV set top like experience using the Windows MCE program and an infrared remote connected via a USB infrared receiver.

Configuration:
- Considering Windows 10 will be off the supported list soon, I chose to replace my current Win10 Media PC.
- The old PC was Win10 Pro X64 PC with NextPVR V4, a Sony VAIO USB IR6 receiver, and Logitech Harmony 650 remote controlling the Windows PC, a Sony amplifier, and a Samsung TV.
- The new Media PC runs Windows 11 Pro X64 with NextPVR V6 and a Dell USB IR6 receiver controlling the same amplifier and TV.
- The same Logitech Harmony 650 remote is still being used.
- The PC specs are of no real consequence, since they are adequate for the task (Intel 4 core CPU 3.1GHZ, 8GB DDR4, GIG-e Ethernet, 128GB NVME boot, 500GB NVME via PCI-e (staged TV), 8TB WDC HDD (recorded TV)).
- I have two HDHomeRun Prime devices (GIG-e) with 2 M-CARD cablecards and 6 tuners total installed.
- The TV network looks like:
Fibre Frontier ONT >> RG58 coax splitters >> RG58 HDHomeRun Prime (cablecard) >> CAT5 (GIG-e) >> Media PC
- Frontier service provides free (unencrypted QAM256) TV and premium (encrypted (QAM256) TV.
- The cablecards convert the QAM256 to a MPEG2/AC3 stream.

Troubleshooting:
- I initial rolled out the new Media PC, since I was able to test NextPVR V6 with no issues. It was later that I found an issue with missed recordings.
- I found a situation where unencrypted free channels 2-24 would play successfully, but encrypted channels 50 and above showed either a blank screen or paused with 'please wait'.
- NextPVR V4 played all channels successfully.
- Initially I suspected V6 was the issue.
- Bottom line V4 assigned tuners from the top down and V6 assigned tuners from the bottom up, so it obscured where the problem was. This was only apparent later and the reason why the symptoms were different between NextPVR V4 vs V6.
- I set up a separate PC to compare NextPVR V4 and V6, since by now I was using the new Media PC to record TV.
- I created a NextPVR v4 VM guest and a separate NextPVR V6 VM guest to compare and test NextPVR settings and configuration changes without affecting the recording TV.
- By swapping cable cards between the two HDHomeRun cablecard devices when no TV was being recorded, I was able to find that the cablecard in HDHomerun 13249C5F was causing the issue.
- In looking at the signal strength for the working vs failing channels, it appeared that the failing cablecard had lower signal strength for the failing channels as compared to the working channels.
- I replaced the failing cablecard in 13249C5F with one from an old set top box.
- After contacting Frontier to activate the spare cablecard, I found the spare cablecard was already activated. Frontier sent a spare cablecard just in case.
- Scanned both of the cablecards with HDHomeRun Setup. The scans found the same number of channels on both cards.
- Rescanned the NextPVR devices and channels.
- Reloaded the SchedulesDirect EPG in NextPVR.
- When using RDP to access the Media PC, found that launching the NextPVR client would not show the NextPVR Main Menu and instead showed the dreaded 'Unhandled exception' red X screen.
- Created a desktop icon to launch 'NextPVR.exe -nogl' to allow modifying the recording schedule via RDP.
- It is known that the NextPVR V6 client cannot view video via RDP with my current LGPO remote host session settings, but I needed to modify the recording schedule via RDP and not via the USB keyboard on the PC
- In troubleshooting the RDP NextPVR client Main Menu issue; removed the K-Lite codecs, removed VLC, removed the LAV 0.74 codecs, installed the LAV 0.78 codecs, and verified the NextPVR codec settings.
- When using a local USB keyboard, NextPVR launches successfully and video plays normally.
- Via RDP, the NextPVR client now launches to the Main Menu for modifying the recording schedule.
- When using an IR remote, NextPVR V6 did not respond to the MCE Green Button on the Harmony, Dell, or Sony IR remotes even though the NextPVR 'config.xml' file was configured to respond to the MCE Green Button.
- Configured 'Advanced MCE Remote Mapper' to generate 'Ctrl-Alt-N' to Windows instead of the MCE Green Button from an IR6 remote.
- Changed the Windows NextPVR client hot key launch to 'Ctrl-Alt-N'.
- Changed the Harmony remote settings to no longer use the 'Ctrl-Tab' to bring the NextPVR client to the front as part of 'Watch TV' startup, since Windows was launching the NextPVR tray 'status' dialog in addition to the NextPVR client from the IR6 remote.
- The Harmony IR6 remote 'Watch TV' button workflow sends the MCE Green Button to Windows and via the MCE Mapper registry change 'Ctrl-Alt-N' hotkey sequence is sent to Windows resulting in the NextPVR client launching to the Main Menu.
- The Harmony IR6 remote now powers on the media devices and launches NextPVR successfully to the Main Menu.
- The K-Lite codecs were not reinstalled, since they are not needed for NextPVR or VLC.
- VLC was reinstalled and successfully plays videos when needed via file explorer and the USB keyboard. VLC installs it's own codecs.
- Windows 11 Media Player also successfully plays videos when needed via file explorer and the USB keyboard. The Windows MPEG2 codecs were previously installed from the Microsoft Store.
- Neither the VLC or Windows MPEG2 codes are required for NextPVR to display the MPEG2/AC3 streams from the HDHomeRun Prime cablecard devices.

Thanks Martin for testing my assumptions and for your knowledge where others have experienced similar issues with low signal strength. My assumption was that NextPVR parsed the cablecards in the same order, but in my case V4 was top down and V6 was bottoms up, so they were selecting different cablecards which caused the symptoms to change depending upon which NextPVR version was tested. My assumption was also that the signal strength from Frontier was not changing to the cablecards, which I still believe is true, since both cablecards show essentially the same signal strength for the same channels, but the failing cablecard did not.

Thanks again...Enjoy....

[mvallevand]

My assumption was that NextPVR parsed the cablecards in the same order, but in my case V4 was top down and V6 was bottoms up, so they were selecting different cablecards which caused the symptoms to change depending upon which NextPVR version was tested.

Your assumption is incorrect, v4 and v6 use the same tuner decisions.  As I first posted there is a config.xml setting, which ism

<ReversePriorityForLiveTV>true</ReversePriorityForLiveTV>

perhaps you changed the default for v4.

Martin