GBPVR Has Split Too Many Ways

[LewE]

Firstly, I love this program and all the plug-ins that have been developed for it.

That being said, I find it more and more frustrating about the several ways that the program has split directions. It is generally called GB-PVR although that version seems to no longer being actively developed. The version called PVRX2 seems to be the current version of the program but plugins like Slimm GB-PVR still use the GB-PVR terminology.

The above must be very confusing to newcomers but they pale in comparison to the use of the BLUE skin or the COMMUNITY skin.

I expect that a majority of users are using the COMMUNITY skin (as am I) but every time a new version of a plug-in is released it does not always have the skin files for the Community skin.

TV LISTINGS is the latest example of this. First, a new version of the plug-in is released and then we users learn the hard way that it crashes if we run GB-PVR in the COMMUNITY skin mode. Then someone has to come along and make up the appropriate Community skin files. This means that the users then have to find these new skin files and install them once they are made available.

I would like to propose that all new releases of plug-ins be issued with both BLUE and COMMUNITY skin files. At the very least, they should be released with installation programs/files that allow the plug-in to function without crashing regardless of whether the user is using BLUE or COMMUNITY skins.

A third and least desirable option is to release any new plug-ins with a warning that they crash if the user tries to run them in the Community skin. I know developers do not want to state that their application crashes when a user tries it but releasing a plug-in without Community skin files is akin to releasing defective software with known bugs in it.

[whurlston]

It is generally called GB-PVR although that version seems to no longer being actively developed. The version called PVRX2 seems to be the current version of the program but plugins like Slimm GB-PVR still use the GB-PVR terminology.

PVRx2 was use as the name of the executable for the new version of GB-PVR. sub graciously included both versions in several releases so that users had time to transition to hardware capable of using the new version. He could easily have simply replaced gbpvr.exe with the new version. I for one love the way he did it even though I had very capable hardware. Think of it as buying Vista and getting a free copy of XP in case your hardware won't work with Vista.

I would like to propose that all new releases of plug-ins be issued with both BLUE and COMMUNITY skin files. At the very least, they should be released with installation programs/files that allow the plug-in to function without crashing regardless of whether the user is using BLUE or COMMUNITY skins.

A third and least desirable option is to release any new plug-ins with a warning that they crash if the user tries to run them in the Community skin. I know developers do not want to state that their application crashes when a user tries it but releasing a plug-in without Community skin files is akin to releasing defective software with known bugs in it.

Plugin developers should be under no obligation to provide support for all variations of skins. Some developers only use the default Blue skin and therefore develop for that. I add a Community Skin file with my Netflix plugin because my wife likes one of the themes. Hairy, McBainUK and FatmanDo also do a terrific job of keeping up with the plugins but it is the "Community" Skin. Anyone can (and is encouraged to) create skin files for it.

[bgowland]

I would like to propose that all new releases of plug-ins be issued with both BLUE and COMMUNITY skin files. At the very least, they should be released with installation programs/files that allow the plug-in to function without crashing regardless of whether the user is using BLUE or COMMUNITY skins.

I agree, in principle, to what you're saying although there are going to be users who use neither Blue or Community skins - at which point the question is how far is a plugin developer responsible for skin support across the board? That said, however, I don't think it unreasonable for a plugin developer to provide notes which make clear the limitations or omissions i.e., "...it only comes with files for XYZ skin...", with instructions on how to create the relevant skin2\Blah folder and copy the skin files in to it. In my experience, one set of skin files will normally work for other skins.

I was a newbie to gbpvr once (obviously) and, although I'm a techie, there was a learning curve and I remember a few failed attempts to get plugins working. Whilst I appreciate it can be frustrating, one thing to remember is that 'third-party' plugins are just that and are developed by a variety of people with different approaches to how they do things. Most importantly, plugin developers give their time free of charge usually working in their spare time around a day job and family life etc. It ain't always easy to get everything right....urrrm practically impossible in fact.

Cheers,
Brian

[mvallevand]

I totally disagree with the concept. Why should sub have to wait for all plugins to work before he puts out a release? He does an amazing job just allowing the old ones to keep running. Sub even took the extra steps and did extra work in letting GBPVR "live" for 1/2 a year to help everyone transition. I don't think you can ask for more than that.

Martin

[McBainUK]

I expect that a majority of users are using the COMMUNITY skin (as am I) but every time a new version of a plug-in is released it does not always have the skin files for the Community skin.

Actually it's more like 1 in 10 use the Community Skin.

releasing a plug-in without Community skin files is akin to releasing defective software

As whurlston said the Community Skin is developed largely by Hariy, FatmanDo and myself. A number of plugin authors have worked quite closely with us and so plugin releases have been done at the same time as a Community Skin 3 update.

But, yes it would be better if all plugins said what skins they supply/work with. Although you have to remember that this is all done in people's free time, doing their best.

[McBainUK]

I totally disagree with the concept. Why should sub have to wait for all plugins to work before he puts out a release? He does an amazing job just allowing the old ones to keep running. Sub even took the extra steps and did extra work in letting GBPVR "live" for 1/2 a year to help everyone transition. I don't think you can ask for more than that.

This doesn't effect new GB-PVR releases. Blue comes with GB-PVR, the Community Skin is separate.

[mvallevand]

McBainUK, I was only using this as an example of sub going out of his way and that I don't think he should have to change a thing about his methodology.

Martin

[LewE]

I did not mean to beat up on the developers and appear unappreciative. I just wanted to point out something that may be escaping them as they keep improving their software.

I agree, in principle, to what you're saying although there are going to be users who use neither Blue or Community skins - at which point the question is how far is a plugin developer responsible for skin support across the board? That said, however, I don't think it unreasonable for a plugin developer to provide notes which make clear the limitations or omissions i.e., "...it only comes with files for XYZ skin...", with instructions on how to create the relevant skin2\Blah folder and copy the skin files in to it.

As I pointed out in my original posting, this would be an improvement over how plug-ins are released now.

Whilst I appreciate it can be frustrating, one thing to remember is that 'third-party' plugins are just that and are developed by a variety of people with different approaches to how they do things. Most importantly, plugin developers give their time free of charge usually working in their spare time around a day job and family life etc. It ain't always easy to get everything right....urrrm practically impossible in fact.

I appreciate the effort put in by the developers. GBPVR would be much less successful without them.

I do think, however, that they may not be thinking in terms of the end users who may be using different skins (such as the Community skin) than they use in their original testing. If they would keep this in mind then they can make their work that much more accessible to us.

I assume that the developers want to make their work as accessible to the users as possible. If the developers did not care about the end users then they would never post their work for us to use and just develop and use their plug-ins for themselves. I just think that by keeping in mind the different environments that their plug-ins may be used in, they can make it a lot easier for the end users.

[psycik]

Another way, and as developer this is how i tend to run it, is in the release notes iif the skin files have changed, then let it be known. I generally split my release notes into program and skin entries.

Because just because I was the colours and layout of the plugin to look like 'x' generally the skin developers are more creative types who may have a different vision...

Also if you can pre-release the plugin to some of the main skin developers before releasing to the general community then you can normally escape this type of issue.

[stustunz]

other than the GBPVR and the PVRX2 which i agree with been a bit confusing but the fact is there was no other way to do it

the rest of what you say is crap
its not commercial and if it went the way you want it then half the plugins/skins whould never get to where they are now using gbpvr/pvrx2 we the users are the testers if doesnt work you ask the developer if he can fix it
in my opinion thats what makes it so great i love the fact that if i cant get something to work i can actually ask the guy that wrote the program what ever it might be

i can see where you are coming from but if you want all that go buy a commercial version
im sure you would be back in a week