Forced to make changes

[soccerdad]

Yes it sucks. Depending on how many TVs you watch at a time, then GBPVR streaming to some clients,PCH, MVP, etc might be able to minimize the number of STBs you have to rent. Since you have the IR and modulation system, you could feed all your lesser used TVs that way. Digital TV looks pretty good, even if it is modulated into analog low def since the signal is so clean.

[nightwalker]

Yes it sucks. Depending on how many TVs you watch at a time, then GBPVR streaming to some clients,PCH, MVP, etc might be able to minimize the number of STBs you have to rent. Since you have the IR and modulation system, you could feed all your lesser used TVs that way. Digital TV looks pretty good, even if it is modulated into analog low def since the signal is so clean.

And I'm considering just that at the moment and maybe even expanding on it a bit. The only place I use HD is in the theater room and I'm pleased with what I get now as thats more or less a stand alone room with access to all media directly. Right now I have 4 MVP's plus associated security cameras, a carousel DVD player and the old VCR all modulated to their own channels. I may add a couple of PCH units to that mix. I could do the same for STB's and just assign them a channel number and leave them in the equipment room with everything else. That would solve my problem of trying to keep digital and analog seperate.

The wife has gotten used to turning to channel 92 from any TV to view her MVP, I'm sure she could get used to turning to 94 to watch her STB. That way I could assign a STB to her, one to me and we'd only need 2. Since the kids have moved on their own now I won't need more than those two plus the HD box that's already in the theater room. I think I can get 2 extra non HD STB's from Comcast for no extra cost during their switch over.

[dennit]

I noticed your first post was that:

Comcast has just notified me that they are going all digital in my area.

I haven't received that notice yet, but I've been watching what happens to others so I'll be ready.

This is getting more strange all the time. The whole point of re-doing the system is to try and avoid the STB.
....
I have wrongly figured that anything other than premium channels and on demand would be in the clear

Perhaps I've got it wrong, but here's how I've understood it:

There are lots of systems out there, like my Comcast system, that have analog at the low end and digital at the high end. The digital includes both in-the-clear QAM for local stations and encrypted channels for HBO, ESPN, etc.

If you are a basic subscriber now, you get only the analog and don't need an STB. You can get the clear QAM if you hook up a QAM tuner.

To get more channels in the current available bandwidth, the analog channels will be made digital, will remain Standard Definition, and will not be encrypted. To allow current basic service customers to get them, they will need a DTA. I thought the DTA was essentially just a standalone QAM tuner and that people could eliminate them entirely if they buy a QAM tuner card for GBPVR.

Certainly, you would not get the premium channels, but I thought you would get the channels that are part of the basic subscription.

Is my understanding wrong? This thread seems to say that Comcast claims that an STB is always needed and that all the current analog channels will be encrypted when they go digital, but that's not what I've heard.

Note: I'm using the term "STB" to refer to a digital tuner with decryption capabities, and the term "DTA" to refer to the extra digital tuning box they plan to give to subscribers who currently only receive analog and don't currently have (or want) an STB.

Anyone want to comment?

[nightwalker]

I can only comment on some, based on what I was told by a Comcast rep on the phone yesterday, subject to change of course, since over the years I've been told different things by different reps.

After the switch they say, within the next couple of weeks in my area, analog will only include channels 2-21, everything else will go into different tiers of the digital system and will need a digital tuner or DTA to get. QAM channels in the clear will only include bottom tier digital package channels plus local channels as required by law, some of these would include local HD channels, everything else will be in higher tier packages and will require the STB to decode and view.

This is one of the few areas that I swear a nice global standard would be nice to have, jeez, just pick a standard/system and go with it. If this stuff drives me nuts what must it do to Sub?

I feel like I've come full circle at this point. I'm back to the beginning with something akin to my old UHF converter sitting on top of the Motorola, right behind the rabbit ears. TV just shouldn't be this complicated. I know they keep telling me there are more channels and more choices and while that's true, up to a point. Having more choice, to me doesn't mean that I can choose any of of the currently running episodes of Leave it to Beaver on 3 channels, or the Andy Griffith Show on 2 channels, and let's not forget the 4 channels that seem to be dedicated to Law and Order reruns, and the list goes on

This experience is likely why I just plain refuse to subscribe to Satellite Radio, They sucked me in once with pay TV and look where it's at. I'm not being pulled into the pay for radio scam too, next thing you know you'll be listening to old Howard Stern reruns on half the channels.

[dark_half]

To get more channels in the current available bandwidth, the analog channels will be made digital, will remain Standard Definition, and will not be encrypted. To allow current basic service customers to get them, they will need a DTA. I thought the DTA was essentially just a standalone QAM tuner and that people could eliminate them entirely if they buy a QAM tuner card for GBPVR.

It depends on what they consider "Basic". In my area basic consists of the local channels and government access. These are probably the channels nightwalker is referring to when he said he would only get channels 2-21. These channels would most likely stay analog or in the clear because basic is the lowest tier. Expanded basic on my lineup is channel between 30-78 which include ESPN,Discovery,History etc.. and they charge additional for these. I would think that this would be encrypted. If they are broadcast in the clear then anybody with a clear qam tuner could get them for free.

[dennit]

It depends on what they consider "Basic". In my area basic consists of the local channels and government access. These are probably the channels nightwalker is referring to when he said he would only get channels 2-21. These channels would most likely stay analog or in the clear because basic is the lowest tier.

From what I've heard, when 2-21 remains, it means that those channels will remain analog and can be watched without a DTA or STB. When a DTA is referred to, it means that the previous analog channels (typically 22-99) will go digital unencrypted QAM-clear.

Expanded basic on my lineup is channel between 30-78 which include ESPN,Discovery,History etc.. and they charge additional for these. I would think that this would be encrypted. If they are broadcast in the clear then anybody with a clear qam tuner could get them for free.

Those channels are currently in my analog lineup and every TV made gets them. If/when my area goes digital, putting those channels in digital QAM clear won't change anything except that a digital tuner will be needed instead.

[dennit]

I can only comment on some, based on what I was told by a Comcast rep on the phone yesterday, subject to change of course, since over the years I've been told different things by different reps.

After the switch they say, within the next couple of weeks in my area, analog will only include channels 2-21, everything else will go into different tiers of the digital system and will need a digital tuner or DTA to get. QAM channels in the clear will only include bottom tier digital package channels plus local channels as required by law, some of these would include local HD channels, everything else will be in higher tier packages and will require the STB to decode and view.

I certainly can't tell what they are doing in your area, but as best I can tell from other reports, you're likely to see 2-21 analog, 2-21 duplicated in clear-QAM (requiring a DTA or clear QAM tuner to watch), the previous analog channels that were above 21 in QAM clear (requiring a DTA or clear QAM tuner to watch), the current clear QAM HD locals remaining in clear QAM and everything else in one or more tiers (requiring an STB).

You should be switching over soon, so please tell us what happens. If I was in your shoes, I'd just pick up a QAM capable Hauppauge tuner.

[dennit]

One comment that I've heard about the use of ordinary QAM clear tuners (as you may have on your TV) to receive the new digital Comcast channels instead of a DTA is that Comcast may move the channels all around and make them very difficult to find. On the DTA they'll be on a reasonably fixed channel number (I understand the DTA maps them internally). On a TV it can be really painful to find the channel if it has moved, and you may have to tune to it with a different channel number when it switches.

Comcast is rigorous about updating any channel mapping for the DTA and STB, but apparently much less so about the physical vs. logical channel mapping needed to access on the same channel with a regular QAM tuner.

This is likely to be less of a problem in GBPVR, since we control the mapping, tune with physical channel numbers and ignore the logical channel number. We may have to remap when it moves, but thereafter we get to refer to it with the same internal GBPVR channel number used before the change. The wife doesn't have to tune to a new number to get the old program.

[mvallevand]

I hear the complaints about Comcast but the DTA gives you some great options that we don't get in Canada where nothing really is clear QAM. Here locally they are just about to take SD PBS off analog distribution too and place it on the STB where it is encrypted QAM with the 5C flag.

However I have also read that the US laws are changing and that DTA's don't have to be clear QAM anymore, they just can't use addressable encryption so enjoy it while you can.

Martin

[nightwalker]

I certainly can't tell what they are doing in your area, but as best I can tell from other reports, you're likely to see 2-21 analog, 2-21 duplicated in clear-QAM (requiring a DTA or clear QAM tuner to watch), the previous analog channels that were above 21 in QAM clear (requiring a DTA or clear QAM tuner to watch), the current clear QAM HD locals remaining in clear QAM and everything else in one or more tiers (requiring an STB).

You should be switching over soon, so please tell us what happens. If I was in your shoes, I'd just pick up a QAM capable Hauppauge tuner.

Right now I'm in a holding pattern to see what they do. I have a HVR 1950 sitting here to hopefully replace my old WinTV PVR USB2 but I'm holding off on that for the moment. I don't think I'm going to be able to get it working with my old 99.12 GBpvr install, so that will have to wait till I solve a couple of other issues and completely upgrade the whole thing at once.

Unless someone out there can tell me if it's possible and how to make it work with that version? I wouldn't mind playing with it a bit but due to WAF, experimenting with her recordings is not permitted. It can't be as simple installing the unit and just editing the direct ini file can it?